Saturday, May 24, 2008

Pray For The Episcopal Diocese Of Albany

From the Times-Union in Albany:

ALBANY -- The Episcopal Diocese of Albany is weighing changes to local church law that will likely touch off fresh controversy around homosexuality and marriage issues when they come up for a vote next month.

One resolution mandates that only a person who is in a heterosexual marriage or "celibate and abstinent" can be eligible for ordination as a priest or consecration as a bishop. Another holds that only heterosexual marriages can be celebrated or blessed in the diocese -- and marriage between a man and a woman is the only kind of union permitted on diocesan or parish property.

Clergy and lay delegates will vote on the proposals during the 19-county Albany Episcopal Diocese's annual convention June 6-8 in Speculator. The debate comes at a time of renewed national attention to gay marriage in the wake of a California Supreme Court decision allowing it.
....

"The national church has gone off the rails," said Torre Bissell, a lay person who runs a diocesan intercessory ministry and has asked on a blog that people pray for passage of both measures.

The Schenectady computer consultant added, "I don't know that there's ever been any place in Scripture where marriage was not between a man and a woman. It's always been between a man and a woman, and the current culture is trying to change that."

Some liberal upstate Episcopalians are marshaling opposition to Albany's new marriage and clergy proposals. They see the latter as an attempt to bar gay clergy and argue that it conflicts with national church policy against discrimination. They also say the abstinence requirement is unenforceable and would encourage dishonesty.


I wonder about the phrase "celibate and abstinent". Why are both words necessary?

I can't envision a loving God, the God that I know and love, demanding that two people of the same sex, who love each other faithfully, never express that love physically. I can't see it. I know of all the citations in the Old Testament that seem to indicate same-sexuality is always wrong. I have read them and pondered them. The Old Testament calls for the punishment of stoning for non-virgins, for virgins who commit adultery, and for disobedient sons. Do we follow those laws today?

I am also aware of the passages in the New Testament. I know that certain Scripture scholars interpret them as not being specifically about same-sexuality, but about other matters, such as prostitution. I say again that I don't need those citations repeated to me in comments, because I have read them already, and I have prayed and thought about them. In addition, Jesus never mentioned same-sexuality. The Gospels are my touchstone, my guide, my light along the way, and there is nothing in them about same-sexuality.

My conclusion is that same-sexuality is, in itself, neither good nor evil. It is neutral. What's important is the nature of the relationship between the two people. Is the relationship loving and faithful? In that context, I simply do not believe that same-sexuality is wrong.

Of course, many disagree with me, which they are certainly free to do. But is this a matter of such importance as to divide the church? I don't think so. I am willing to live in a church with those of you who disagree with me. Why not the other way around? Why aren't you willing to live with me?

Please join me in praying for the convention of the Episcopal Diocese of Albany and for Bishop William Love.

UPDATE: H/T to Fran at FranIAm. Sorry I didn't give you credit first time around, Fran.

40 comments:

  1. My goodness, Mimi, you do get around. I had heard of this recently but did not know the time-table with regard to convention. My understanding is that there is concern in Albany that the NY legislature might authorize same-sex marriage or civil unions in the next term so the diocese wants a written policy in place beforehand so they will have legal grounds for discrimination if need be. Also, this will not only affect who gets ordained or goes to seminary (nothing really new, however, here since it has been diocesan policy for some time), but also will reinforce the diocese's lack of tolerance for any priest who disagrees or has questions about the diocese's anti-gay policies. So it's not just partnered LGBT folks who are not welcome but also their friends and advocates. Parishes who want to call a more liberal priest have not and will not be allowed to do so. But, again, this is nothing new there. They are just about to be more formal and public about it.

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  2. Klady, as you can see from my just-added update, I have friends all over. I'm pleased that you make the point that the ramifications of the legislation extend beyond LGTB folks to those who stand in solidarity with them.

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  3. Hi Grandmere- thanks for the H/T, but not needed. I am but an RC friend who loves all the great Episcopal bloggers that I have met in this year of blogging.

    As a direct result of you, Padre, Tobias, Jane R., Paul, Eileen, That Kaeton Woman, Caminante, Muthah+,ReverendBoy, DoormanPriest and dare I add, even the MadOne and so many others that I am probably leaving off and hopefully not insulting, I have learned so much about my own faith and have really developed a longing for unity.

    That longing was there before, but is now a much clearer desire and prayer.

    I have learned so much about my own faith and about yours.

    So here I sit, in the odd position of being in what I think is (but the mainline does not) a great RC Diocese and that by comparison, is not so great for TEC.

    We rejoice together, we weep together, we pray together. Such is our salvific vision and dream.

    Wow. Where did that come from? That Holy Spirit, go figure.

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  4. Fran, from the Holy Spirit, indeed! Thanks for the lovely words.

    On the other hand, this comment will come back haunt you with the shades of those you left out.

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  5. klady's real close to the situation, but having had family that looked for a church in that area, I can report that some feel that the Diocese of Albany is wildly out of touch, both with respect to the calendar reading 2008, and with it's attractiveness to newcomers...

    And honest, Fran, I'm not hurt...

    clumber++, First Canine Bishop of TEC

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  6. Clumber, it's not only the Diocese of Albany. It's closer to home, too.

    See, Fran. The ghost of Bishop Clumber is already here.

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  7. I think abstinent means you're Not Doing It Right Now but celibate means a long term commitment to Not Doing It -- though actually celibate originally just means you don't get married.

    Not to be confused with chastity, which is a virtue for both the celibate and the partnered.

    OCICBW, I am only half there right now.

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  8. Jane, LOL. Thanks for the clarification. It's awesome, even if you're only half here and half right.

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  9. Rut-ro! I am in trouble with the big dog.

    I can see my chances of becoming an RC element in the table slipping away...

    I sure hope that as canine bishop he is as forgiving as God and dog can be!

    How I had dreamed of the day I would see "FraIamium"!!!

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  10. So who's going to check for pecker tracks?

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  11. Oh dear. I'm envisioning lolcats. "Sex. Ur doin it rong."

    Sheesh. I'm really sorry you guys have to keep going through this, from diocese to diocese. If only the haters would put their enormous amounts of energy into, I dunno, feeding the hungry or something.

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  12. Feeding the hungry? Slicing carrots? Right belief, right prejudice, right asskissing seem to be the modus operandi of the Dio of Albany and so many others.

    I assume you read that Akinola was in +Clumber's territory at Trinity's graduation. Ugh. Glad I'm a bit north of those Christians-in-name-only.

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  13. big dog???

    Well, I have put on a little weight lately, but that's no reason to start calling me names!

    FraIamium? Seems to me I'd have to go with "Franium" which is how I misread your name most of the time anyway!... But we could make you the first RC missionary to the heathens in the Anglican world, I guess.

    Trinity... grrrr... don't get me started!

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  14. Interesting that in Yiddish, Bissell means "a little." Sad that Mr Bissell is unaware of the same-sex marriage reported in 1 Samuel 18:3. The language could not be more explicit, tho it gets lost in some translations. "Jonathan cut with David a covenant in his love for him as his very being." And then ripped off his clothes. Oh, yes, they were very good friends. How does the old saying go, 'There's none so blind as those who won't see..."?

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  15. I can't win with you people. I post on a serious subject and look what happens. All of a sudden, we're having a humor fest, and I succumb to temptation and get right in there with you, when I meant to be Mrs. Sobersides.

    And you, Tobias! You know that David and Jonathan were just very good friends.

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  16. franiam started it...

    clumber++

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  17. It is true.

    Bless me Clumber, for I have sinned.

    Oops, wrong church.

    Mimi- it was and is a serious post and I did mean all that I said earlier.

    Having omitted Clumber - well guilty as charged for ensuing shennanigans!

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  18. Boy, that was quick, even for an RC, to plead guilty! I was kidding, franiam. Mimi started this by going out of state... she probably doesn't even know where Albany is. She may have dated Erastus Corning, but that doesn't make her an upstate NY expert!

    (just kidding, Mimi!)

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  19. I seriously liked your serious post Mimi.

    This resolution makes me glad I live in a diocese where we just don't talk about it. Our bishop's lips, I guess, are formed in such a way that they can not make the word leeeessbiaaaan. Thus it never comes up.

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  20. All these witty comments leave me dumbfounded.

    Mimi, this is a good post. I agree with what you said about Jesus. But I'm afraid that this issue is going to keep being fought, diocese to diocese, until we're all weary of it.

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  21. "Of course, many disagree with me..."

    Which in turn, would make them wrong.

    If one has experienced the joy of finding the other that completes them, why would you attempt to keep that from others? Could it be that they're so miserable in their marriages, they want everybody else to be miserable too?

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  22. Lindy, we don't talk about it in my diocese or in my parish, either. It's pretty much unmentionable.

    Ruth, this will be fought diocese by diocese, but the reasserters are losing the battle. For the young people coming up, inclusion is their default position.

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  23. If one has experienced the joy of finding the other that completes them, why would you attempt to keep that from others?

    Exactly, KJ.

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  24. The oddest part to me is this sentence: "Another holds that only heterosexual marriages can be celebrated or blessed in the diocese -- and marriage between a man and a woman is the only kind of union permitted on diocesan or parish property."

    Either those two clauses mean approximately the same thing, or I'm envisioning some kind of ecclesiastical authority (in a fabulous uniform, of course) that will patrol the borders of Albany church property hoping to arrest (or at least admonish) people in those "other" kinds of unions who wander over the line. Your gay brother better not show up at his niece's baptism unless he leaves his partner of 15 years at home! Family values in action (to say nothing of the baptismal covenant).

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  25. So Clumber... about that FranIamium...

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  26. C.W.S, the wording is strange. I searched around for the resolutions, but they don't seem to be on the official list of business to be taken up at the convention.

    If the resolutions are presented and passed, one presumes that there will be folks in fabulous uniforms patrolling the borders of the diocese.

    By the way, where is Albany?

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  27. Albany is probably about 4 hours north of NYC, and is also on the Hudson River. I believe the diocese extends farther north than south, though I don't know the details. When I was small we lived not far from Albany, but we were Lutherans then.

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  28. Sheesh!

    I suppose after the HoB deposes +Pittsburgh and +Springfield, it should look at Albany. ;;sigh;;

    FWIW
    jimB

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  29. C.W.S., my question about Albany was ironic in response to Clumber's pot shot at me. Watch how long it will be before I give him a pat or a scratch. I have actually flown into Albany and seen a bit of it as we drove through on the way to the Adirondacks.

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  30. Oh do come back soon Grandmere. I can introduce you to a lovely man who has the same name as your son, first and last. You would adore him and he, you. (insider info between me and my mimi!)

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  31. Fran, I was shocked at how rural and unpopulated parts of upstate New York are. We stayed at Long Lake, and I climbed Blue Mountain. Everest it ain't, but I was still proud. As I was descending the mountain, I slipped down five times. (It was misting and the path was slick.) I was covered with mud and sore, very sore, when I got back to our motel. One day, I'll tell you about the motel.

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  32. You write: "Of course, many disagree with me, which they are certainly free to do. ... I am willing to live in a church with those of you who disagree with me. Why not the other way around? Why aren't you willing to live with me?"
    Unfortunately, Grandmere, it's been my personal experience that it is always those who hold to the status quo who are unwilling to work with/ worship with those who want to push the boundaries.

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  33. SR, that seems to be the case. I am a fairly recent convert to inclusion, as you can see from the titles of my "Confessions", which I keep prominently on my sidebar.

    As I view it now, full inclusion for all of God's people in the Body of Christ has to do with following the Gospel, love, and justice.

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  34. Ohhh, Mimi!

    One day, I'll tell you about the motel.

    Are you attempting to appeal to your good readers' prurient interests? Well, I for one need no explanation at all of what you do behind closed doors! Nor do I need pictures or movies posted here!

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  35. Clumber! I'd said I'd tell Fran! I know that a good old dog like you wouldn't be able to handle the story - and the pictures and the video.

    Did You notice that I posted my element, Mimium, from your Anglican Periodic Table? I'd been meaning to for a while, and I finally got around to it. As a humble pew warmer, I am more proud than I can say to be included.

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  36. Well Mimi, you're a rock-solid representation of the average Joe or Jane who puts their butt in the pew. You don't check your brain at the door, you aren't afraid to question stuff that doesn't smell right to you, but in general you think your church is a pretty nice place to be in community with Christians around you, even if you all don't agree on everything. The church needs more Mimi's and fewer Ikers (to pick one at random!)...

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  37. Those words coming from the first canine bishop of TEC mean a lot, Clumber. Thank you.

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  38. C.W.S., I want to see a drawing of the fabulous uniforms. This has great potential.

    Thanks for keeping up the fabulosity quotient. What would we do without you guys?! (I'm serious.) (Especially in the church...)

    Maybe Clumber should make an element called Fabulosum. And we should have a character called Fabulous-Man (I'm thinking of boy fabulosity, but we know there is a a l-word equivalent and Clumber will think of her element too) who can fly in to situations in need.

    Whaddya think?

    P.S. Mimi, you might as well give up on Total Seriousness. Your fans are a hopelessly silly crew. Yrs truly included of course.

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  39. Jane, I have long since abandoned any illusions of having control over the comments. I'm just happy to have them at all, especially from such a smart, witty, bawdy group of people.

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