tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2174812066017196444.post1475406687795066258..comments2024-03-22T12:57:57.273-05:00Comments on WOUNDED BIRD: SICK AT HEART - THE RIOTS IN ENGLANDJune Butlerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2174812066017196444.post-39671772901418324922011-08-10T09:38:53.239-05:002011-08-10T09:38:53.239-05:00Nor do I, Lapin.
And I wouldn't want anyone...Nor do I, Lapin. <br /><br />And I wouldn't want anyone to think that I'm without sympathy for the shopkeepers and the people whose homes were looted. When protests turn violent, the protestors lose any high ground they may have originally had.June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2174812066017196444.post-69253728830006852002011-08-10T06:34:45.021-05:002011-08-10T06:34:45.021-05:00No way do I glorify the 40'S & 50'S, M...No way do I glorify the 40'S & 50'S, Mimi.Lapinbizarrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686990585795363001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2174812066017196444.post-20264103821149737502011-08-09T22:11:49.305-05:002011-08-09T22:11:49.305-05:00We can probably locate the origins of this in two ...<i>We can probably locate the origins of this in two factors: mid-Victorian religious morality and the nature of the British national psyche. </i><br /><br />We tend to glorify the 1940s and 1950s in the US, too, but if you peer closely, you can usually find ugliness beneath the facade.June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2174812066017196444.post-81321072219006782912011-08-09T22:03:05.091-05:002011-08-09T22:03:05.091-05:00The author of the Independent piece isn't writ...The author of the Independent piece isn't writing about the 1840's & 50's, Mimi, but about the 1940's & 50's. It's a pretty accurate record of how one thought and was taught to think.Lapinbizarrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686990585795363001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2174812066017196444.post-74126872577171941622011-08-09T21:04:52.978-05:002011-08-09T21:04:52.978-05:00Sadly, as at the beginning of the Russian Revoluti...Sadly, as at the beginning of the Russian Revolution the people rose in ways that were not according to hoyle. Those who have lost everything, and watch the rich get more are angry. I see the anger blooming here too. I don't think what they are doing is right, but with those who are fighting for their very lives I do understand their anger. The governments need to focus on the people and the rest of the spending EVERYWHERE (money for the War, money to prop up other nations, etc.) needs to stop to help those in need.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01203286781888444548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2174812066017196444.post-72966507259121858192011-08-09T20:23:09.223-05:002011-08-09T20:23:09.223-05:00I like the way Brian stated it all.... I would onl...I like the way Brian stated it all.... I would only add: If the thief breaks in and steals your second loaf of bread, the thief is not the criminal --the crime is yours. <br />--paraphrase of St. Basilit's margarethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13577280471100732619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2174812066017196444.post-26469845713533246442011-08-09T20:02:58.169-05:002011-08-09T20:02:58.169-05:00Ignore that at your peril.¨ Brian
Exactly. BIG N...Ignore that at your peril.¨ Brian<br /><br />Exactly. BIG Numbers aren´t always about who has the most money.<br /><br />Ignore that at your peril.Leonardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16667415590825321701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2174812066017196444.post-11245964631268437562011-08-09T19:55:23.112-05:002011-08-09T19:55:23.112-05:00Lapin, in the article in the Independent, the writ...Lapin, in the article in the Independent, the writer seems to paint the past with a thick layer of rose-colored paint. As I see it, British society was never as one-dimensionally civil as the author wants us to believe. On has only to read Dickens....<br /><br />But you would know better than I. What do you think?<br /><br />Brian, your thoughts are are my thoughts. Amen to your prayer.June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2174812066017196444.post-5081672452275732872011-08-09T19:49:46.980-05:002011-08-09T19:49:46.980-05:00JCF - when protesters loot, they are no longer pro...<i>JCF - when protesters loot, they are no longer protesters: they are criminals.</i><br /><br />I respect faith-claims, James---but that's what that is. Your opinion. [Which, needless to say, is all I have either]<br /><br /><i>Even the BBC and SkyNews have stated...</i><br /><br />Again, more opinions and faith-claims.<br /><br />No one wants to be broken into, robbed, violated...<br /><br />...and at the same time, we can't really know EXACTLY what's going on in the heart/mind/soul of those doing the looting.<br /><br />There are other kinds of hunger, than purely nutrition-deprivation. There are other kinds of desperation.<br /><br />The rioters, the looters: these are our brothers&sisters. As are those being looted. And the police. And the politicians, left, right & center. Let's pray for ALL of them.JCFnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2174812066017196444.post-54789849635642745392011-08-09T19:32:42.533-05:002011-08-09T19:32:42.533-05:00From the perspective of the poor, which I share, t...From the perspective of the poor, which I share, there is wonder and amazement that those who decry the violence and the looting now have little to say or do about the legalized looting of pensions and salaries, the theft of social services, land, and jobs, the violence of being shut out of the political process at all levels. <br /><br />Eyes are too often averted, tongues clucking, and little to nothing is done. What have you done today to reach out, like Jesus, to alleviate the suffering of the poor neighbor living right beside you?<br /><br />As to Anonymous -- when you are poor there is little else to do but have sex because that, for now, is still free. Stand on your pillar and condemn but remember that because the poor have little else to do but have sex, there are many, many more of them than there are of you. Ignore that at your peril.<br /><br />May God have mercy on all his creatures and bless us in this time of trial.Briannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2174812066017196444.post-46020134754683439372011-08-09T19:03:57.513-05:002011-08-09T19:03:57.513-05:00That being said, when governments set policies tha...That being said, when governments set policies that privilege the already privileged and further disadvantage the already disadvantaged, no one should be surprised if there is civil unrest.¨ Mimi<br /><br />BINGO! I said before, when one lives, yes actually lives, amongst people who earn less than $1 a day (picking coffee, weeding fancy export mini-veggies) and finca owners are wealthy (often Spanish Land Grants) or simply slippery, or well-educated thieves (oh and religious ones too who never pay taxes) <br />give ¨privilege¨ a very nasty way of ¨being¨...reading about the life and death of Oscar Romero ought refresh tendencies to avoid thinking about reality (on the ground).Leonardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16667415590825321701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2174812066017196444.post-5259798239758806152011-08-09T18:45:40.474-05:002011-08-09T18:45:40.474-05:00Once again, I do NOT excuse or defend criminal beh...Once again, I do NOT excuse or defend criminal behavior, such as violence, destruction, looting and burning. That being said, when governments set policies that privilege the already privileged and further disadvantage the already disadvantaged, no one should be surprised if there is civil unrest.<br /><br />And yes, the initial reporting on the reason for the police shooting Mark Duggan was less than stellar. I don't take everything that Skye and the BBC report at face value. I don't forget that the BBC reports on the BP oil gusher in the Gulf of Mexico missed the mark more than once.June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2174812066017196444.post-33639599939824421452011-08-09T18:34:26.092-05:002011-08-09T18:34:26.092-05:00Interesting piece, "Has the behaviour of the ...Interesting piece, <a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/no-shame-no-limits-has-the-behaviour-of-the-mob-destroyed-the-idea-of-british-civility-for-ever-2334863.html" rel="nofollow">"Has the behaviour of the mob destroyed the idea of British civility for ever?"</a>, in The Independent.Lapinbizarrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686990585795363001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2174812066017196444.post-61680021281889106522011-08-09T18:19:17.691-05:002011-08-09T18:19:17.691-05:00It seems pretty clear now that Mark Duggan, the ma...It seems pretty clear now that Mark Duggan, the man whose fatal shooting by the police triggered all of this, did not, <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/09/mark-duggan-police-ipcc" rel="nofollow"> as the police initially claimed</a>, fire first (or at all) at the police, which was their only excuse for taking him out.<br /><br />When this becomes common knowledge things could get further out of hand.<br /><br />"The English are always bloody rioting anyway" is why the American Revolution occurred, isn't it? Never have happened, as it happened, in a French, Spanish or Portuguese colony.Lapinbizarrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686990585795363001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2174812066017196444.post-15719249900570551732011-08-09T17:58:51.871-05:002011-08-09T17:58:51.871-05:00My "beef" isn't with the broken wind...My "beef" isn't with the broken windows. That is a rage release and I completely understand that. But stealing everything that is removable is not a sign of frustration. Stealing food is, but not staling 1,000 dollar dresses. Having lived on the margin for several years since my illness and unemployment, I do understand.Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2174812066017196444.post-10113685501882644312011-08-09T17:58:45.511-05:002011-08-09T17:58:45.511-05:00The English are always bloody rioting anyway. I ta...The English are always bloody rioting anyway. I take that quote from Pankhurst from a book called The English Rebel: One Thousand Years of Troublemaking from the Normans to the Nineties by David Horspool :) They're always at it!!Cathyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14082263093224795131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2174812066017196444.post-74903520447032211022011-08-09T17:53:24.987-05:002011-08-09T17:53:24.987-05:00Yes, I wouldn't remotely compare it with Stone...Yes, I wouldn't remotely compare it with Stonewall. It is basically thugs breaking into shops and nicking stuff. I don't respect them or it.<br /><br />Having said that, I think JCF has a point. "The argument of the broken window pane is the most valuable argument in modern politics" (Emmeline Pankhurst).Cathyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14082263093224795131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2174812066017196444.post-55772517956694677972011-08-09T17:53:23.193-05:002011-08-09T17:53:23.193-05:00James, yes, and if your family is starving, and yo...James, yes, and if your family is starving, and you steal food from a store, you are a thief and a criminal.June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2174812066017196444.post-55972825874145273682011-08-09T17:45:32.576-05:002011-08-09T17:45:32.576-05:00JCF, thanks for your comment.
Piskie, I hope we d...JCF, thanks for your comment.<br /><br />Piskie, I hope we don't see riots here, too.<br /><br />Anonymous, please make up a name and sign your post if you comment again.<br /><br />If I were to return like for like, I'd wish for you to live on the margins for a period of time, with little in the way of education or skills and little hope of bettering your life, but I won't.<br /><br />I hear your kind of argument many a day around my home town, and now I don't even bother to argue back, because I've found that most folks with that point of view have closed minds. If you're poor, it's your own fault. End of discussion.June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2174812066017196444.post-49325430560806840812011-08-09T17:38:44.646-05:002011-08-09T17:38:44.646-05:00JCF - when protesters loot, they are no longer pro...JCF - when protesters loot, they are no longer protesters: they are criminals. Even the BBC and SkyNews have stated that it is the criminal element that is accelerating the violence for their own gain. Interestingly, one of my Scottish friends and an English friend both blame "foreigners" for the riots. Xenophobia is not merely a US trait.<br /><br />Leonardo - someone may correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not remember any incident of looting in the Stonewall "Riot." It was a protest. Violent, yes, but other than burning a couple of police cars, I can't recall reading about any other criminal acts. (Okay, beating the crud out of cops with a high-heal pump is probably a criminal offense.)Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2174812066017196444.post-52002337643602098682011-08-09T17:34:36.728-05:002011-08-09T17:34:36.728-05:00My hope is that everyone who's wringing his/he...My hope is that everyone who's wringing his/her hands at this while saying "I don't condone it, but I'm not surprised and I understand why they're doing it-they're deprived." gets his/her house looted and gets to share his/her excess wealth and privileges with the less fortunate.<br /> When I heard about the guy with four kids at 28, unmarried to any of their mothers and unemployed, I just had to shrug. How can you make it out of poverty while acting in such a stupid way? Why do you expect the rest of us to feed what you breed?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2174812066017196444.post-69492288862023083132011-08-09T17:08:50.093-05:002011-08-09T17:08:50.093-05:00Will it spread to the US? I hope not but wouldn...Will it spread to the US? I hope not but wouldn't be surprised.PseudoPiskiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12070541512355253553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2174812066017196444.post-49756912120641564352011-08-09T17:05:58.196-05:002011-08-09T17:05:58.196-05:00Protesters do not loot: criminals do.
I think tha...<i>Protesters do not loot: criminals do.</i><br /><br />I think that's way too hard&fast a line. It's a sad reality that looting may ALSO be, de facto, a form of protest. You feel disrespected, so you don't respect others. You reject---PROTEST---the social order. [I don't agree w/ this POV, but I seek to understand it.]<br /><br />And speaking of "criminal element":<br /><br /><i>while there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free</i>. Eugene V. Debs, at his (draft-protest) sentencing, 1918.<br /><br />I join you all in prayers...JCFnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2174812066017196444.post-75698471617747782982011-08-09T17:01:46.631-05:002011-08-09T17:01:46.631-05:00Leonardo, people who are the victims of discrimina...Leonardo, people who are the victims of discrimination and injustice sometimes decide they've had enough, and they react violently and destructively. I'm not saying it's right, but it happens, and why are we surprised?<br /><br />Bex, I read the story of the peaceful protest a couple of months ago with, I believe, 2000 people, to which no one paid attention.June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2174812066017196444.post-24175869639927419402011-08-09T16:55:13.031-05:002011-08-09T16:55:13.031-05:00The powers that be in Britain prescribed austerity...The powers that be in Britain prescribed austerity for the country's economic ailments. It worked as well there as it's going to here, that is, not at all. As to the immediate cause, a young man was quoted as saying a very large, peaceful protest march to Scotland Yard was held and the press ignored it completely. None of this, obviously, is an excuse for violence and looting, but why can't we ever learn enough to try to keep these kinds of thing from happening?Bexnoreply@blogger.com