As I walked tonight, my thoughts turned to prayers of petition. What good do they do? Just how does God act in response to prayers of petition? I believe that petitionary prayer is efficacious, but I'm not sure how it works. Goodness knows that I do enough of it, therefore I must believe that what I do has a purpose. I know that in my act of praying for another, I am changed by the prayer, and I believe that the prayers affect the person or persons for whom I pray for good. What I see as the result of my prayers may not always be what I want or what I expect for myself or others, and yet I continue to pray.
Our church has a prayer chain ministry, a list of people to call who are willing to pray and pass the prayer request on whenever someone asks. Sometimes the chain gets a kink or in a knot, and the prayers don't move along the chain in a timely manner, or even at all. At times, the event, such as an operation or a life or death situation, passes before the prayers are prayed. I feel sad and discouraged about the ministry when that happens.
Here on this blog and other blogs, posting prayer requests has become what I view as a prayer ministry. Some come early to the prayers and others later. Yet, as I walked and pondered these things, what I came to see is that none of the prayers are for nothing. I believe God hears and answers all the prayers, even retroactively, so to speak. The very instant a person asks for prayer, God responds. The prayers that come late are part of God's response as much as those that come early - or so it seems to me.
Certain family members are presently experiencing a difficult time of it, and I pray for them and feel great concern for them. As I was praying for them during my walk, my prayers were rather abruptly interrupted by a voice, not an audible voice, but an inner voice that speaks to the heart. The words were from Chapter 14 of John's Gospel, "Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. I do not give to you as the world gives." The words came plain and clear. The words of Jesus that follow are quite comforting, "Do not let your hearts be troubled, and do not let them be afraid."
The inner voice continued with words from Numbers 6,
"The Lord bless you and keep you;
the Lord make his face to shine upon you, and be gracious to you;
the Lord lift up his countenance upon you, and give you peace."
What I think of as my solitary walks oftentimes result in amazingly fruitful companionship with God.
Thank you, Mimi, this was just what I needed to read tonight - a restless mind I have indeed.
ReplyDeleteSo a favorite passage I send back to you :-)
Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice! Let your gentle spirit be known to all men. The Lord is near. Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 4:4-7)
Oops, almost forgot why I popped by - you might want to check out what our naughty Mad One has done to your listing on his blog roll. Obviously it doesn't deserve much of a response, but you might want to know why your readership has spiked.
ReplyDeleteSigh.
I saw your headline just before I had to step away from the computer and thus had a couple of minutes to think about it before reading what you had to write.
ReplyDeleteMy immediate response was that such prayer aligns ME with God, those I pray for, and the cosmos. (Cf. the fourfold harmony for which the messiah frees us according to the Catechism on p. 849.)
I believe this is similar to your affirmation: "I am changed by the prayer." I certainly feel the same way.
I do believe that shifts the energies of the universe but how prayer works I do not know. I am grateful for the prayers of others and happy to pray for them.
I have prayed, sporadically, over the years. Lately I had come to think it was a waste of time. God already knows this stuff, why do I need to remind Him. Sometimes I'm not even sure who or what I'm even praying to.
ReplyDeleteHowever, since I have stumbled onto this community of diverse believers, who do pray for one another, my attitude has changed. The last year has been a real struggle for me and I think you and the others around here are exactly what I needed. Thank you and everyone else here, at that "other place" and elsewhere for that ministry.
You all really are in my prayers!
A wonderful chaplain I met once told me that he imagines us all to be connected, a bit like mushrooms are connected underneath the earth. And prayer enables God to reach those of us who might otherwise not be open to his healing.
ReplyDeleteAnd my wonderful Spiritual Director suggested that God's time may not be our time, so that it does not matter if a prayer chain gets tied in knots.
I've always found both thoughts very comforting.
Yes the inter-relatedness...
ReplyDeleteDrs Calvin and Melanchththon had this idea about the Eucharist, that the Divine Presence was in the Communion of the Saints, not in the Eucharist.
For us, a Majority church, that is a rather interesting thought.
But I still think they misread it: the Presence is in the now/always of the Eucharist and its Elements, and the Communion in the Communion of the Saints, as in exemplified in Prayer ;=)
Mimi--you know I struggle with this issue. But I felt all your prayers when I really needed them, and I feel compelled to pray for you and others as well. I have no idea what the purpose is...but I really like Ericka's mushroom idea. We are all connected in some mysterious way and when one of us cares enough to spend time in prayer for another, surely that is all to the cosmic good...
ReplyDeletePax,
Doxy
Prayer for me is like this: I think we all have our own strand on the intricate web of life. Our job is to make our strand hum in harmony with others. Our job is to make our thread hum with prayer. When I'm feeling scared or anxious, it gets dark and I feel like I am standing on my little thread all by myself. My concentration is so caught up with keeping my balance on my thread that I'm not in harmony with others or myself. Intentional prayer - 'petitions' - helps me to regain my balance. To hear others and open my ears to the possibility of hearing God. To get back on pitch, and help make the hum of my prayer more harmonious with the rest of the world.
ReplyDeleteThat's just an image that works for me.
Elizabeth
ReplyDeleteis this your intentional prayer for others that helps you to regain your balance, or theirs for you?
And does it work if you don't hear it?
Prayer is not for me. Prayer is for others.
ReplyDeleteIt is a personal reminder that I am not important, others are. In that sense it is for them. And it puts me mindfully in the presence of God. Which is where I should always be. Which is why Paul advised us to: "Pray without ceasing."
Which raises the next pertinent question: what is prayer? And the answer begins with discerning what is not, and cannot be.
Or something like that.
Here's what I am learning here.
ReplyDelete"Faith is not certainty so much as it is acting-as-if, in great hope."
And prayer is an expression of that hope.
I'm going walking tonight, Thanks, Mimi!
Beautiful. I, too, do not know how prayer works but I do know it works. A powerful lesson I learned a few years ago is that God's answer to our prayers can be more that we are able to to ask or hope for. When times are tough, I rest in that assurance.
ReplyDeleteWhat great comments! You know, when I take the time to actually compose a post, rather than doing a copy and paste or quote job, the rewards come.
ReplyDeleteLynn, the passage you quoted is one of my many favorites.
As to the parenthetical comments that go with the link to my blog at OCICBW, they've been there for ages. I suppose that a few folks venture over here for the dirt, but they go away sadly disappointed.
I do believe that shifts the energies of the universe....
Paul, I like that.
You all really are in my prayers!
Sara, as you are in mine and, I'm sure, in the prayers of others here.
Erika, I believe we are all interconnected, too, not just with folks here on earth, but with the Communion of Saints in heaven. In my Roman Catholic school, I was taught that the souls in purgatory are part of the Communion of Saints, but I don't believe in purgatory any more.
I'll respond further in another comment.
Unbelieveably timely.
ReplyDeleteThank you, Mimi.
Göran, the presence is in the now and in the Eucharist. When I left the Roman Catholic Church, I wanted a church with frequent Eucharists. I need that.
ReplyDeleteDoxy, it is the experience of feeling the effects of the prayers of others on me that convinces me that petitionary prayer is efficacious. When we're in the Slough of Despond, often we cannot pray, so we depend on our community to hold us up and pray for us, whatever and wherever that community is.
Intentional prayer - 'petitions' - helps me to regain my balance. To hear others and open my ears to the possibility of hearing God.
Elizabeth, exactly. The prayers for others turns us away from our "all about me" attitude. It's a lovely image.
It is a personal reminder that I am not important, others are. In that sense it is for them.
Rmj, yes, and you are important to others. For some reason, you've been on my more or less daily prayer list for years now. How do I explain it? It's a call from God.
...what is prayer?
To answer that question, I agree that we must begin with what prayer is not.
Crapaud the Toad, yes. You like my heading, do ya? A bit more of my personal theology, which, if it doesn't work for you, you can throw it out. Go take a hop. It will be good for you.
God's answer to our prayers can be more that we are able to to ask or hope for
Two Auntees, that's the truth. You draw from another of my many favorite passages in the Bible.
Suzanne, maybe God's time? You're quite welcome.
Dear Mimi,
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely the best book on prayer I ever read is "In God's Presence" by Marjorie Suchocki. She's a brilliant theologian, and in this slim book not only unpacks prayer, but a whole comprehensible systematic theology in words of no more than two syllables.
It all comes down to this: God doesn't do the impossible. God does the possible, emerging from "what is." God works with "what is," to bring about the best that can be -- and when we pray we add to "what is." And so give God more to work with.
God bless you, and let us pray together to add to the sum of what is, as God weaves it all together in the new creation...
Marjorie Suchocki also happens to be a process theologian. I love her work.
ReplyDeleteIndeed she is, Wormwood's D. and one of the best -- what I love about In God's Presence is that she develops a full fledged process theology in such wonderfully accessible language. At the same time, for those who want to venture there, she does the whole Whiteheadian jargon thing (entities, prehension, concresence, and occasions) in "God, Christ, Church" -- I think she's super. Process (or relational) theology is the way to go, as far as I'm concerned...
ReplyDeleteWith recommendations from you two, Doxy and Tobias, I shall buy the book.
ReplyDelete...what I love about In God's Presence is that she develops a full fledged process theology in such wonderfully accessible language.
Tobias, you do that, too. I love your sermons, because you express yourself in words that are easily understood without talking down to your congregation.
Process theology allowed me to remain a Christian. I am grateful to theologians like Suchocki who helped me find a vision of God that *finally* made sense to me.
ReplyDeletePax,
Doxy
I absolutely do NOT understand petitionary prayer but it comes highly recommended by Jesus and so I do it -- especially now that I have this slightly odd blog world community that asks for my prayers and responds to my requests. (My requests so far all deal with my dog -- which says something about me and about this blog community -- and how fragile my beloved dog is)
ReplyDeleteThe one thing I AM clear about is that it makes sense to ask that people who are hurting not have fear. Everything else -- I have to keep muttering "thy will not mine" -- but I am oddly sure that God does not wish anyone to be afraid.
Thanks for the topic, Mimi. You are a gift.
SusanKay, thank you. Doesn't matter if your requests are for your beloved dog. I asked for prayers for my Diana when she was in trouble. When our pets are in trouble, we are in trouble.
ReplyDeleteI'm considering (with tongue thrust firmly in cheek) collecting my original blog posts on the faith into a small volume titled - let's see - "Ma Petite Théologie" perhaps. What do y'all think?
Three snaps up!
ReplyDeleteGrandmere --what a beautiful post. Thank you!
ReplyDeleteand it left me thinking --do not let the left hand know what the right hand is doing..... it's all about input Grandmere, not outcome.
And you and your family are in my prayers. For all that it is worth.
Beautiful, Mimi.
ReplyDeleteNone of us knows how prayer works. No need to get hung up on not understanding. Nobody understands it. I think the thing is just to do it.
Thanks for this post.
Doxy, thanks for the vote of confidence.
ReplyDeleteAnd you and your family are in my prayers. For all that it is worth.
Margaret, thanks. That is worth a lot to me.
I think the thing is just to do it.
Lindy, I think that's right.
In this digital age, why not use email for your prayer chain? One person sends one email, and you reach as many as want to be on the prayer list. There are no kinks in the chain. This is how our church does it, with one designated person to coordinate prayer requests.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, in this digital age, I can also see the value of actual human contact to pass the prayer along. Emails are so impersonal, and easy to delete, and an actual human voice, and an obligation to make a phone call and talk to someone else in turn, could become part of the prayer.
So, I guess it's a wash. Just my idle musing.
As far as efficacious prayer goes, I can't quite get past wondering, so what happens to people who don't have people to pray for them? Surely God doesn't pay less attention to their need, just because there are fewer people nagging him on their behalf? But then if he knows and responds to all people and their needs, what's the point of prayer? Efficacious prayer would seem to favor the popular and well connected. I haven't found a way to think about efficacious prayer that makes sense to me.
I can certainly see how my prayer changes me, but then how is prayer different from self-therapy? If prayer is about me, how do I know that God isn't just a projection, and prayer isn't just another form of self-help self-talk?
Yet more idle musing, and not very original, but thoughts that have been rattling around since I started trying to pray.
Wilfried, as to using email for the prayer chain, one of our most faithful members is legally blind. Others are elderly and don't have or use computers. Of course, many of the younger members work or let the answering machine take messages, so passing the message on is not always a personal encounter.
ReplyDeleteI feel sorry for people who don't have anyone praying for them, but I'm sure that God takes care of them just as well.
The efficacious bit is difficult to work out, except that I've been on the receiving end of prayers that seem to work. That changed the way I view prayers of petition.
I want to make it clear that when I pray for others, the prayer is about them, not about me or what I will get out of the prayer. The effect on me is what I'd call the extra, or lagniappe, which is not sought after, but is simply given.
Mimi--that is one thing I learned from reading Kathleen Norris, who writes so beautifully about being a lay member of the Benedictine order. The job of monks and nuns is to pray for the world. So someone, somewhere is always praying for those whose needs are known only to God.
ReplyDeleteThat gives me great comfort.
Pax,
Doxy
Doxy, thanks for the reminder. The monks pray specifically for those who have no one else to pray for them. I've read most of what Norris' work and other books on Benedictine spirituality, and I should have remembered that.
ReplyDelete