Monday, May 11, 2009
"We" Let Them Do It
From Jacob Weisberg at Newsweek:
The use of torture on suspected terrorists after 9/11 has already earned a place in American history's hall of shame, alongside the Alien and Sedition Acts, Japanese internment during WWII and the excesses of the McCarthy era. Even liberal societies seem to experience these authoritarian spasms from time to time. It is the aftermath of such episodes—what happens when a country comes to its senses—that reveals the most about a nation's character.
....
Well before the nation reelected George W. Bush in 2004, the country's best investigative reporters had unearthed the salient aspects of his torture policy: in December 2002, Dana Priest and Barton Gellman revealed on the front page of The Washington Post that American interrogators were employing "stress and duress" techniques as well as shipping prisoners to places like Egypt, where even fewer rules applied. "Each of the current national security officials interviewed for this article defended the use of violence against captives as just and necessary," the reporters wrote. "They expressed confidence that the American public would back their view."
Seymour Hersh broke the Abu Ghraib story in The New Yorker in April 2004. In May of that year, The New York Times revealed that the CIA had waterboarded Mohammed. In June, another major Washington Post scoop described a Justice Department memo asserting that CIA interrogators couldn't be prosecuted for using torture on detainees. That same month, NEWSWEEK further revealed that Cheney's lawyers had declared waterboarding a legal and acceptable practice. The leaked Red Cross report and the new memos released by the Obama administration add horrible detail to the story. They do not fundamentally change what we previously knew.
So yes. "We" gave tacit approval to torture when we reelected George Bush. Maybe not you, maybe not me, but "we", as a society, gave the George Bush maladministration the approval to continue to use torture.
Members of Congress say they didn't know. How could they not know? I knew. They were briefed. Perhaps certain information was withheld, but they could have read the newspapers.
The fact is that many in the country believed that torture was justified. I hear folks say the same thing today. Avoiding even the mention of the repugnance, immorality, and illegality of torture, I ask them about the innocent who were rounded up willy-nilly and tortured first and released later, the response is, "Too bad for them. We had to do it to stop the terrorists." Then I say, "But they were not terrorists. They were innocent and subsequently released!" that changes nothing in their thinking. It had to be done.
As the good book says , Pogo's book, I mean, "We Have Met the Enemy and He Is Us".
Many of my friends may disagree with me, but I believe that Weisberg is right.
President Obama has done the most important thing: reversing Bush's policy and declaring, as he did last week, that torture was unequivocally wrong. What we need now is a public airing through congressional hearings and perhaps an independent commission, an idea that the White House is resisting. Pursuing criminal charges would be too hard politically and too easy morally. Prosecuting Bush and his men won't absolve the rest of us for what we let them do.
(My emphasis)
The White House must stop resisting the idea. I want the commission, but I don't want public discussion of torture shut down. That's why I do not want a special prosecutor, because important actors in the planning and execution of this horrifying policy of torture, the insiders in the second and third tier, have tales to tell, which however self-serving they may be, could shed light on what took place behind closed doors.
UPDATE: Read Diana Butler Bass' report on a pew Research poll on the attitudes of Christians concerning torture and weep.
H/T to the Episcopal Cafè.
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g'mere, I agree that we all have to take responsibility for the torture. I too would like to see an airing but I think the blaming of officials and trials would be counter productive. But we must be willing to address the victims' complaints in some way.
ReplyDeleteMuthah, I agree. Although we can never make it right for those who were tortured and denied their rights, some sort of national apology and reparation is most definitely in order.
ReplyDeleteI think we should take the South African "Truth and Reconcilation" way. There are certainly wise and non-partisan people who could be tapped for such a group. I really don't understand those who insist torture was justified.
ReplyDeleteAmelia, I'd like to see something like the TRC, here, too. Maybe Archbishop Tutu could be named chairman.
ReplyDeleteI still can't wrap my mind around any justification for torture. There was an interesting discussion on Religion and Ethics News Weekly week before last, with two ethicists coming to two very different conclusions as to when torture is justified, which I would paraphrase as: "Never" and "When it works." I just find the latter so troubling, not only because you can't tell if it will work until after you've done it (which I would think should give any ethicist pause!) but because the bulk of evidence, as I understand it, shows that it very rarely works. ("Work" here meaning getting information that advances ones own cause -- itself an ethical question, no?)
ReplyDeleteSo it comes down to: I'm going to do something other ethicists think should never be done, on the basis of the possibility that it might result in some advantage to me.
God save us from such ethics...
dear, dear, Mimi
ReplyDeletethis is going to be a first... disagreeing with you, so i'm counting on your generous friendship.
a couple of points:
1) torture is a criminal act and wether it is counter-productive or not a first principle of law is accountability for such illegal acts and the gross disrespect for human life.
2) I would also suggest that unfortunately the T&R Commision model of South Africa is not really workable, as the individuals who suffered this torture could not be participants. Many of them couldn't even follow such proceedings were they to be broadcast internationally due to their living conditions.
The South African model worked because it was between fellow citizens, a public forum of equals under the new regime. In this instance. In this case, those who survived torture and imprisonment wouldn't even be in the room.
Another counsideration is the fact that these illegal acts are now, thankfully, public knowledge, and should America not act on the requirement for legal accountability, it would sadly be too easy to for the world community to perceive that America considers itself above the law.
Justice and the truth are never counter-productive when it comes to the eradication of human suffering, at least for this Canadian
thanks Mimi
David@Montreal
Please don't interpret this post to mean that I think that torture is ever right. It is always, always wrong. I hate it when the argument moves in the direction of utility. Whether torture works, or not, should not even be considered.
ReplyDeleteWhen one engages on the basis of, "Does it work?" one loses the moral ground. Torture should never be used, whether it works, or not. Please read this post which I wrote recently. I have spoken out consistently against any use of turture under any circumstances.
The subject of the post is, "Where do we go from here?" Obama has said we will not torture. He ordered the torture memos released. That is good. Now, what's next?
David, I know that torture is a criminal act.
I also understand that our commission would need to be different from the TRC.
We, as a society, were not troubled by the use of torture, or we would not have reelected Bush. Our culture is under indictment, not just the people in charge.
Anyone is free to disagree with me, and I knew that some of my friends would do just that. I happen to agree with Jacob Weisberg that the citizens of the US don't have the stomach for a series of criminal trials of the top members of the Bush maladministration at this time.
Torture is wrong. It should never be used! Most information that we are beginning to see says that it does not work but whether it works or not it is wrong.
ReplyDeleteI think we must investigate to find better ways of preventing us torturing in the future and to find out who needs to receive justice. I fear that failure now means those in the future on the knife edge of being blind or protesting will see only the immediate repercussions of protesting and have no fear of long term repercussions for being blind and will not have the inner strength to protest (few, unfortunately, are like Hugh Thompson at My Lai). Then there are those who think they are justified to break another human.
ReplyDeleteRead the link in the update that I just posted to the Pew Research poll on the attitudes of Christians to torture.
ReplyDeleteDavid has a point about the victims in this case and their testimony. I was thinking more about the ones who actually did the torture as being the ones whose actions need airing. I did read the Pew Research poll a few days ago and was shocked. I thank God that I belong to a "mainline" church.
ReplyDeleteAmelia, the policies came from the top, the highest levels of the government. I want the entire story told, from top to bottom, insofar as it's possible.
ReplyDeleteWith the release of the torture memos and Cheney's self-incriminating words circulating on the talking-head TV shows, we may be on a march toward criminal investigations and trials that cannot be stopped. If that's the case, then so be it. It's not that I don't want justice to be done, but I don't want to see the underlings punished and the top officials let off.
Still, I hate to think of all the necessary policies, such as reform of health care, that may never get the attention they deserve, if the focus is on criminal trials of the members of the Bush maladministration.
See my post on this subject at Friends-of-Jake. Struggle to end torture, Yes. Be self-righteous about declaring we're against it, No.
ReplyDelete