Sunday, June 2, 2013

JUSTIN WELBY WANTS MORE PROTECTIONS AGAINST GAY MARRIAGE


THE Archbishop of Canterbury will call on the government this week to make further concessions in the same-sex marriage bill to protect those with moral objections to gay and lesbian weddings.

In a significant intervention during a debate in the House of Lords, Justin Welby is expected to urge ministers to ensure that faith schools and teachers who do not wish to promote gay marriage in class will be able to refuse to do so without penalty.

Welby, the head of the Church of England, is likely to reiterate the objections of the church to gays and lesbians being allowed to marry and his support for traditional marriage.
What about Justin Welby's pastoral duty to all the members of the Church of England?  What about Justin's earlier words of praise for gay relationships?  "You see gay relationships that are just stunning in the quality of the relationship."  And yet, he will say that the people in England "with moral objections" need to be protected from same-sex couples in "stunning" relationships being allowed to marry.  How likely is it that teachers in faith schools will be forced to promote gay marriage?  Such fear as is demonstrated in the concerns of Christian opponents of same-sex marriage, including Justin Welby, is quite troubling.   For heaven's sake, if you want protection against same-sex marriage, then don't marry a person of the same sex.

The link is to a teaser, as only subscribers to the Sunday Times are able to read the entire article.

Thanks to Ann for the link.

29 comments:

Leonard Clark said...

Perhaps he will gain on protection and feel safer (instead of the coward that he is) if he wraps himself in the flag of NIGERIA and/or becomes the Primate of Uganda.

Grandmère Mimi said...

Len, Christians who set policies from a position of fear, when what they fear is not at all frightening except in their fevered imaginations, seem to me to have it all wrong. Justin has said that his views on same-sex relationships are evolving, but the deeper he gets into his role as ABC, the more his views seem to be evolving in the wrong direction.

Anonymous said...

Now you know evolution is just a theory, right?
The thing is, the "protection" is about preserving the privileges and advantages of assumed superiority, the "right" to feel entitled to dominion/dominance, to feel better about themselves by putting others in a subordinate role ... a second class to feel better than is required by the essentially insecure ... how dare these others assert equality and thereby force "regular" people to question the comfortable status quo from which they so heartily benefit? It's about advantages, not morality ... the ABC might study the American far right to learn the a,b,c's of couching petty self-interest in the language of religion - they're far more experienced in the practice and they don't abide prophylactics.

Grandmère Mimi said...

Yes, Marthe, evolution is only a theory, and, in theory, Justin Welby's views on gay relationships are evolving. The results of the evolution of his views are gradually being revealed, and they are not encouraging. Why would a follower of Christ encourage his flock to indulge their fears?

"There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear; for fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not reached perfection in love." (1 John 4:18)

Anonymous said...

Perhaps because fear abets manipulation and if manipulation is the unspoken agenda, control the actual object of worship, it can be an effective strategy.
Amen and amen to 1 John4:18.

Lapinbizarre said...

Might as well bring back Thatcher's Section 28, which banned the "promotion" of homosexuality in schools.

Leonard Clark said...

Still amazes me that the ABC panders to vertically corrupt Nigeria, Uganda (and associates) while pretending to offer spiritual guidance in the form of discrimination, marginalization of LGBTI Anglicans/others and touting a standard for protection of a deceitful system (that remains deceitfilled with every passing day)! This guy is no moral leader, he is a cornered coward...one for the World to see!

Grandmère Mimi said...

Very disappointing, though about what I would expect of a person who came to faith at Holy Trinity Brompton in London. I still have not forgotten the Alpha Course, and I did not even see the anti-gay videos which are part of the program. The course soured me on HTB.

Paul (A.) said...

How is it that someone with the education to gain the episcopate never managed to learn the distinction between religion and morals?

Grandmère Mimi said...

Might as well, Lapin.

Grandmère Mimi said...

Paul (A.), it seems that when the last two bishops stepped into the office of Archbishop of Canterbury, they entered a kind of prison of the mind that is locked into the religion of the Church of England and of the various conservative churches of the Anglican communion.

Bonnie said...

Sigh. Just in time for the start of Gay Pride Month. I watched MILK last night. Let the battle continue.

Honestly, you would think the Archbishop could find more constructive issues. Like helping heterosexuals improve their own marriages?


Grandmère Mimi said...

Bonnie, I shake my head. It's incredible that the church lags so far behind secular society in a matter of justice and equality.

susan s. said...

Why does he think that teaching about it is 'promoting' it? Does he feel the same way about teaching kids about other religions, which is what Jack does, and yet no one bitches about that. I just don't understand this at all.

Grandmère Mimi said...

susan, I can just hear the teachers tell the students, "Now when you grow up and marry, each of you must seek out a person of the same sex."

No. I don't understand either.

David said...

chere Mimi: seems to me Justin's attitude could also be seen as admission that the CoE privilege and theology needs extra 'protection' from reality. And if one, as I do, believes that the Holy Spirit does not limit Herself to working within the confines of the 'official church', it would appear that the CoE has some serious catching-up to do. Once again, for me the essential question for me is, is the Church meant to be an end-unto-itself, or does the Holy Spirit continue to keep faith with humanity that we all might have the 'life more abundantly' our Lord calls us to.

Grandmère Mimi said...

Jesus never intended to build a new institution, so I don't understand how church leaders can see preserving the institution as an end in itself. They should rather do their best to discern the work of the Holy Spirit today within and outside the church.

Russ Manley said...

The Archbishop is echoing, perhaps mindlessly, the double-talking canards of the far rightwing. Secular society has long since embraced both divorce and unmarried cohabitation; but do you ever hear people saying "Oh these must not be taught in schools!" No - because the heterosexuals love those two things and wouldn't dream of giving up either one. It's pure tribalism at work here.

The ABC continues to signal to me that he is a well-meaning featherweight: a timid, crowd-pleasing "company man" who takes care to say the right things to the people in power, and is always sure to cover all the bases and keep his [donkey] well covered too; a man who was promoted much, much too early in his career, and now has a high position but no clue of what on earth to do with it. A ditherer and a trimmer who wants to be everybody's friend but in the end will be nobody's, not truly. A man who makes a great show of exhausting himself in the service of others, but is really serving only Justin and his insatiable need to be liked by everyone.

Of course, I hope time will prove me wrong, but I'm getting pretty good at spotting phoneys in my old age.

Grandmère Mimi said...

Russ, I wish I could say something in Justin's defense, but what from I've seen and heard from him thus far, I must agree with your description.

I see Welby acting like a diplomat in a tricky situation, trying to lower the temperature. The thing is, following the Gospel is not diplomacy. Jesus was a failure as a diplomat. He said what he wanted to say without giving much thought or attention to soothing the feelings of the people to whom he spoke.

Russ Manley said...

Update, 10:13 a.m. Texas time: I have just listened, live, to the ABC's remarks in the House of Lords on the same-sex marriage bill, and I have now lost all respect for him or his office or the Church of England. Welby, after a lengthy prologue in which he praised by name all churchmen/women who had spoken out on both sides - the trimmer can't help himself - proceeded then to declare that the bill "abolishes, recreates, and renames" marriage as some monstrous thing made up of unequal provisions for unequal people. Or something like that. So it will take procreation out of marriage and make it a worthless thing.

When I get the text from UK news sources I will publish it on my blog. And perhaps with sharper commentary than I can use here on yours, Mimi. Welby is in the pocket of the hysterical homophobes, and no friend to LGBT people.

Shame! On a man who pretends to be acting in the name of Christ.

Grandmère Mimi said...

Russ, thank you. How sad. Please when you have a link to the text, publish it.

Rmj said...

Like anyone in a position which depends on pleasing the right people at the right time, the Very Rev. Welby knows what to kiss, and when.

People who attain such positions do so by knowing that cardinal rule. Bold dynamic leaders are not appointed.

Jesus never intended to build a new institution, so I don't understand how church leaders can see preserving the institution as an end in itself. They should rather do their best to discern the work of the Holy Spirit today within and outside the church.

WHAT? And get a real job?!!!????

Grandmère Mimi said...

I missed the speech of the Archbishop of Canterbury in the House of Lords, but here's the link to the text of the speech.

Muthah+ said...

Thanks so much, Mimi. I am tired of the double talk we get from Lambeth. I know he is trying to represent the Evangelicals after +++Williams taking people down the Romish garden path, but +++Justin doesn't get it either. Sigh. Guess we will just have to show them on this side of the pond. At least he hasn't stuck his foot in on women bishops yet.

Grandmère Mimi said...

In the words of St Ronnie, "There you go again," Rmj: Speaking good sense.

Grandmère Mimi said...

Muthah, for some strange reason, I find the C of E endlessly fascinating, even as their policies are so very wrong-headed.

Rmj said...

I share the general disappointment.

But I'm not surprised.

The church, as in institution, generally follows the people. Rather like political institutions.

Follows slowly, but it follows. What other choice does it have?

Grandmère Mimi said...

A majority of the people in England want civil marriage for gays. It's the screaming minorities who try to carry the day, just as they often succeed in doing here in the US. Of course, the complicated arrangement of church and state with an established religion makes the process quite different from here.

JCF said...

What Russ Said.