CHRISTIANS are being killed in Africa as a consequence of liberal attitudes towards homosexuality in the United States and Britain, the Archbishop of Canterbury suggested on Friday.Good grief! I find the archbishop's words astonishing. Is Justin Welby saying that Americans with "liberal attitudes" about gay sexuality are complicit in murder?
Speaking on LBC radio about his opposition to same-sex marriage, he said: "I've stood by gravesides in Africa of a group of Christians who had been attacked because of something that had happened far, far away in America."
Clarifying his comments on the mass grave, he said: "What was said was that 'If we leave a Christian community in this area' - I am quoting them - 'we will all be made to become homosexual, so we are going to kill the Christians.' The mass grave had 369 bodies in it, and I was standing with the relatives. That burns itself into your soul - as does the suffering of gay people in this country."A deep tragedy, indeed and a sight surely never to be forgotten. Where was the mass grave? Do the murderers speak truthfully about the reason for the mass killing? Is it right to take the words of murderers on the reason for the killings and, on that basis, refuse justice and equality to the LGTB members of the Church of England?
"I was in the South Sudan a few weeks ago and the church leaders there were saying: 'Please do not change what you are doing because then we could not accept your help. And we need your help desperately.' And we have to listen to that."I have news for the archbishop: Diocese to diocese and parish to parish relationships continue between Episcopal churches and African Anglican churches, despite the rants of homophobic African bishops about the practices of the Episcopal Church. Policies of justice and equality for LGTB Episcopalians have been implemented, even as TEC and African churches continue to work together. The ABC seems to think "bash the Americans" is good church policy. I don't know. Maybe it works for him.
"What was said was that 'If we leave a Christian community in this area' - I am quoting them - 'we will all be made to become homosexual, so we are going to kill the Christians.' The mass grave had 369 bodies in it, and I was standing with the relatives. That burns itself into your soul - as does the suffering of gay people in this country."Why not lay the blame squarely where it belongs, on the murderers and leaders who pass and implement draconian laws that cause great suffering and even death for LGTB people in their countries? Why blame Americans with "liberal attitudes"?
Asked whether he could imagine a day when two people of the same sex married in the Church of England, he said: "I look at the scriptures, I look at the teaching of the Church, I listen to Christians round the world, and I have real hestitations [sic] about that. "
He added, however: "I am incredibly uncomfortable about saying that. I really don't want to say no to people who love each other, but you have to have a sense of following what the teaching of the Church is. We can't just make sudden changes."
"Sudden changes?" Where has he been for the last 20 years?
More from Archbishop Welby on the broadcast, which runs for nearly an hour.
Rev Welby’s callers included former Tory MP Ann Widdecombe, who asked him whether the Church does or does not approve of homosexuality. The Archbishop told her drily: “How unsurprised I am by that question, I can't imagine.Where's the love in saying no to marriage or a blessing to two people of the same sex who love each other? Where's the love in saying to gay priests that they can never marry and must always remain celibate?
“I just said the Church is quite clear that sex outside marriage is wrong, and marriage has been understood as a man and woman. That seems to be a fairly clear statement.
“I'm not going to pull my punches on that. I think I'm right, you think I'm wrong. We differ.”
It seems to me that unless and until the office of Archbishop of Canterbury is separate from the office of "primus inter pares" of the Anglican Communion, LGTB members of the Church of England will continue to be held hostage without justice and equality because of homophobic attitudes of certain African bishops.
++Justin is way off track, way too far lost in his fundy brain washed circumstances...Archbishop Bul, Sudan, was probably not much help keeping reality in focus as the man is always running off at the mouth (anti-LGBT slur) half cocked (as my Yorkshireman Dad would have said)! Welby needs to give us notice, to find a way to RESIGN!
ReplyDeleteJune, this is a calm and clear critique of everything the Archbishop said. I am so deeply saddened by this debacle in the church that I wonder whether there is anything at all that ++Welby can do now to mend these fences .......but maybe that was his point after all. He does not want to mend fences he just wants to be clear that ( in his opinion) it is perfectly correct to expect gay people to be celibate if they want to be Anglicans. ..... I simply cannot bear that thought........
ReplyDeleteThe broadcast took place on the 46th anniversary of the assassination of Martin Luther King. Others before me have linked Justin Welby's views to those of the clergy in Birmingham whom King addresses in his "Letter From Birmingham Jail".
ReplyDeleteIn your statement you assert that our actions, even though peaceful, must be condemned because they precipitate violence. But is this a logical assertion? Isn't this like condemning a robbed man because his possession of money precipitated the evil act of robbery? Isn't this like condemning Socrates because his unswerving commitment to truth and his philosophical inquiries precipitated the act by the misguided populace in which they made him drink hemlock? Isn't this like condemning Jesus because his unique God consciousness and never ceasing devotion to God's will precipitated the evil act of crucifixion? We must come to see that, as the federal courts have consistently affirmed, it is wrong to urge an individual to cease his efforts to gain his basic constitutional rights because the quest may precipitate violence.
Oh screw Welby. The kindest thing I can say about him, from all I have read since he was installed, is that he is a Grade-A twit and a king-size goofball, always talking out of both sides of his mouth at once, a trimmer and a 1-cylinder brain in a 12-cylinder job - just like George W. Bush.
ReplyDeleteSo 369 innocent Christians were killed in a mass slaughter? Where? When? Has this ever been reported before in any news media? Confirmation, please?
And even if this horror really occurred as Welby claims, as you and others have pointed out already, where does the real guilt and sin lie?
So all sex - all LOVE - outside of Christian marriage is wrong - that means it's a sin - that means if you do it you will burn in hell forever according to God's Perfect Justice (TM) as expressed all down the centuries from Paul to Augustine to Aquinas. And if you are gay, you cannot marry, you better not love, and you will most certainly fry if you have sex, you dirty little faggot.
What crap. What pure, unadulterated, mindless hypocritical chauvinist bullshit. Welby can go indoctrinate himself, I have no use for him.
Justin is surely out of his league. What's odd is that he blames what "happened far, far away in America", just before a planned visit to Canada and the US this week. I assume the hosts will welcome him graciously anyway. Maybe, someone will say, "Justin, we need to talk."
DeleteOne hopes the "someone" will quote some of the words of another African...also an American...to him, one who could have taken him to the multitude of graves filled with the bodies of those killed because of bigotry and the "just be patient" approach to injustice and violence.
DeleteHarvey
And perhaps they will tell him this little story too.
DeleteA man, Justin perhaps, died and went to heaven. Just as St. Peter was welcoming him through the pearly gates Justin said, "Wait. You know I have always been curious about what's down there. Any chance for a look-see?" St. Peter said "Sure. You can come back up anytime."
Satan met Justin and offered to give him a tour. Amazing! Sunshine, flowers, every wonderful plant and fruit tree, flowing streams, beautiful waterfalls. Happy families all around. Justin thinks well this is just window dressing.
As they are strolling along Justin spies a huge ugly black steel door and asks Satan, "What's that?" Satan strolls over and opens the door. Sure enough fire, brimstone, unspeakable weeping, wailing and agony. Turning to Satan, Justin says (with more than a little righteous sarcasm) "So what's that." Satan shrugs his shoulders and rolls his eyes and says, "Beats me. It's something the Christians wanted."
He is pretty much telling the everybody that the gays can hit the road. Too much baggage and they want this and that and people get killed. Very simple what he wants and will get.
ReplyDeleteWhat's really a rerun is Archbishop Bul hysterically drumming up horrible drama (as if they needed more in his terribly damaged country) against OTHER human beings...and then, Bul, of course petitions the WEST for $$$ without even blinking...now, that is prading ghastily real life circumstances, peddling them for whatever he can get out the tragendies and THEN slandering the character of fellow human beings. Welby, bit...sucker went for the hate bait.
ReplyDeleteI'm beyond understand Justin Welby. When I heard that he had been appointed, my heart sank. Justin came to faith at Holy Trinity Brompton in London. I don't know about the present leadership but the church has a history of being anti-gay. One Lent, a group from my church watched and discussed the Alpha series of video lectures produced by HTB. Though some of my friends enjoyed the series, I hated it. The presentations seemed rote and shallow. The production was too slick, and the congregation, in appearance mostly upper middle-class, appeared to give rapt attention to the lecturer, Nicky Gumble. If anyone in the congregation was bored or fidgety, they were edited out. I gather the series included an anti-gay lecture, but we were not shown that particular one. It seems Justin can't move past what he learned at HTB.
ReplyDeleteSomeone needs to remind him that the same breath that breathed life into him is the same breath that breathed life into all of us. No matter how much pontificating wind he huffs up, he can't breath it out of us or make us less wholly holy God's very own.
ReplyDeleteBonnie, I know people must try. I hope while Justin is in Oklahoma City tomorrow, he will hear from someone how badly his commentary has played here, and perhaps he will offer an explanation.
Delete