Every Saturday, at this time of the year, Grandpère goes fishing with one of our sons. Fall is prime time for salt-water fishing, and each Saturday the two are in a boat in the marshes or in a lake. They are out to catch fish, which is serious business with them. The two are quite competitive - so competitive that my other son won't go with them, because he likes more easy-going fishing.
Grandpère invited an acquaintance to go along with them, a man he knew from the university where he worked before he retired. This is an honor. Not too many people get asked. The guy has had many health problems, and he was feeling better, so it seemed like a good time to invite him. We knew that he was a staunch Baptist, but in the boat yesterday, he went into full fundie right-wing mode. The subjects of the conversation were as follows:
Salvation (Yes! GP needed to be saved)
Creationism (Yes!)
Intelligent design (Yes!)
Evolution (No!)
The media (No!)
Except for Fox News (Yes!)
Time Magazine (No!)
And now - Quelle Surprise! - Bush (No!)
These topics of conversation rattled Grandpère and threw his fishing off. He didn't catch many fish. Prediction: this man will not be invited to go fishing again.
I grew up fishing. We were taught not to talk.
ReplyDelete(Very difficult for an ENFP Leo, I might add...)
What comes of dealing with "real" people, tell him. Stick with cyber-friends and dogs and you won't have these problems. Incredibly ignorant of the man to act like that, of course, but I suppose he felt - as these folks apparently do feel - that saving Grandpère's immortal soul trumped good manners.
ReplyDeleteI'm surprised, from all the dark doings in Louisiana swamps I've seen in movies, that they didn't just batter him to death and throw him overboard for the 'gators.
There they were trapped in the boat. The "preacher" had a captive audience. My son ignored him and went about his fishing - the wise course to take.
ReplyDeleteLapin, I believe that GP was tempted. He was in a really bad mood when he came home.
Poor GP.
ReplyDeleteThis reminds me of my friends who are in a bluegrass band in NC with some rather right-leaning evangelical Christians. They (my friends, a straight married couple who are, to say the least, left-leaning on issues personal, political, and other) are Jewish. So far they have managed fine but there hasn't been too much proselytizing on the part of the Christians. They seem to a) enjoy making music together and b) be quite taken with each other (they're all very sweet people) but then, they are not stuck in a boat together and they do get their energy out in the music! I agree with Doxy that fishing is for being quiet. (Being a talky Taurus, I can identify with Doxy, but I am also my father's daughter and like quiet almost as much as he does.)
And don't you scare the fish off with the talk?
ReplyDeleteWe knew this man was quite "religious", but not that he was such a zealot.
I can't imagine going fishing with someone who is going to preach to you the whole time. It simply breaks a cardinal rule of all social events.
ReplyDeleteThe last time I went fishing was a few years ago with my son-in-law Chuck, on Bayou Bienvenue. He talked about fishing and little else. My grandson Piers (about 8 at the time) caught lots of redfish, but I didn't even get a nibble.
No, do invite him again. Then GP can push him in and row away. I'm not yet ordained so feel I can speak freely here.
ReplyDeleteD.P.
And don't you scare the fish off with the talk?
ReplyDeleteThis is what I was told. Only years later, when I watched fishing shows where the talk was incessant as they hauled in (seemingly) fish after fish, did I realize this was a rule meant to keep small children quiet.
'Course, there was that night there were five of us in the boat, and I caught my limit. The talk was constant, but it never occurred to me...
such is the power of indoctrination. Which, hmmm, has an application here, too.
I gotta go.
At least the Baptist didn't think to "baptize" Grandpère properly, if you take my meaning.
ReplyDeleteThe other day my dad got his nose out of joint when one of his neighbors was shocked to learn that my dad was not a "5-point Calvanist."
"He even doubted my salvation," my dad exclaimed.
"Welcome to my world," I told him.
Poor GP--he has a good memory of all those irritating subjects!!
ReplyDeleteOf course there IS precedent for simultaneous fishing and preaching.
ReplyDeleteMy most trivial posts get the best comments. My friends, you entertain me well for a small price of admission.
ReplyDeleteEven if there is competition, and even if my son and husband are serious about fishing, a little relaxation and refreshment creep in. How can they not in the midst of the quiet of the marshes?
But preaching in the boat - even if Jesus did it - would not result in the relaxation response for GP.
DP, that gentleman is banned from the boat. There will be no opportunity to dump him overboard. I've warned you more than once that you'll be defrocked before you're frocked for this kind of talk.
Rmj, I think "don't talk" was for the children so they would not serve to distract the grown-up fishermen from the task at hand.
KJ, one day you'll have to explain the "5-point Calvinist" to us. Your father was insulted, was he?
Boring alert!
ReplyDeleteFive-point Calvinism (TULIP)
1. Total depravity: We're all corrupt and sinful -- even genteel southern grandmothers.
2. Unconditional election: God chooses you, but your choosing God is irrelevant. The "elect" are saved. If God has chosen to save the Mad One, we have no choice but to spend eternity with him.
3. Limited atonement: Though Jesus' penal substitution can save all, only the elect are saved. Too bad for Dennis.
4. Irresistible grace: When God chooses to save someone, that individual's resistance is futile. This would explain why IT's attempts at being an atheist are quite pointless.
5. Perseverance of the saints: Also known as "eternal security." Those that God has chosen will not lose their faith or salvation. Those who turn away from their faith never likely had a true faith to begin with. This could be used to explain the "falling away", as evidenced by becoming an Episcopalian, of big 'mos like me.
*sound of crickets*
KJ, I said ONE day. It didn't have to be today! Thanks anyway.
ReplyDeleteTULIP will be a big help with this, but even with help, I don't know if I'll be able to keep it straight in this poor old head of mine.
I don't think I'm among the elect. If I ever thought I had the true faith, I've tuned away and that signifies that I never really had it in the first place.
I just got back from a day on the road. What a far-ranging discussion! And to think it all started with fishing with a fundie! I had heard of TULIP but can't always keep all the letters straight.
ReplyDeleteAnd we were always told to keep quiet while fishing as well.
Poor Grandpere!
My son was over here this afternoon, and I asked him how he liked fishing with F. (as I'll call him), and he burst out laughing and said he thought F. had brain damage.
ReplyDeleteI've known others like him, and if he has brain damage, then he has lots of company. He's programmed, or you could say brainwashed, which, on second thought, may be a form of brain damage.
Oops, I meant friend in CA not friends in NC. Yes, how odd, but there is a big bluegrass scene in CA. Of course there is one here in NC too. I am not a big bluegrass fan except outdoors at street fairs and farmers' markets. Which I've seen and heard more in CA than in NC, go figure.
ReplyDeleteYou and GP have some nice spicy Louisiana food to recover with a good glass (or two) of vino. Doux Jésus! What an ordeal.
So GP did not try to push him off the boat?
ReplyDeleteI am shattered to find out, after all these years, that it was all a lie about having to be quiet so as not to scare the fish away. It turns out that my entire childhood revolved around a big fat lie. And my father up and died, aged 95, before I found this out, so I can never confront him this side of the grave.
ReplyDeleteDoxy, being an INFP Capricorn I could mostly manage to keep quiet (and also not wiggle too much and rock the boat), but my little Leo sister sure had a struggle. . .
kj, thanks (I think) for the TULIP lecture with helpful examples drawn from our home crowd. The thing that mystifies me is, if the whole question of salvation is already settled, why not ignore Bible and Church and the whole business and just go fishing?
Total Immersion would have been doubly appropriate.
ReplyDeleteFran, GP really did not throw him overboard.
ReplyDeleteMary Clara, I am an INFP, too, but a Virgo. I can I keep quiet - sometimes.
Lapin, it would be double, for I'm sure F. had already done the dip.
Calvinism for Dummies
ReplyDeleteThere's some good news and some bad news. The good news is that for reasons that we'll never understand, God has decided to save a limited number of humans (hereafter known as The Elect) through the penal atonement of His Son, Jesus Christ. This will happen whether the Elect want to be saved or not.
The bad news is that most of you are not part of the Elect, and as a result, you will go to Hell.
Uplifting, aint' it?
-Barry Fernelius
I can't believe anyone would corrupt the pure act of fishing with religion. What a shame.
ReplyDeletelindy
Lindy, GP won't allow that again, I assure you.
ReplyDeleteHey Grandmere Mimi, does Grandpere know anything about noodling? I heard there's a lot of that sort of thing down in the swamp country. I've always wanted to try it. It would scare me but I want to do it anyway.
ReplyDeleteit seems to me that there is no such thing as fishing without beer. The few times I've been taken fishing there was always lots of beer.
ReplyDeleteEverytime their friend started in on religion they should have reached into the ice chest and pulled out another cold beer.
He would have caught the hint. eventually.
Lindy, I asked GP about noodling. They don't do it, but some folks around here catch catfish that way. You have to know what you're doing with catfish, because of the spiny things around the mouth.
ReplyDeleteFor those of you who are wondering, noodling is catching fish by hand.
Dennis, Grandpère and son don't drink beer while fishing. Many fishermen around here do, starting early in the morning, but my guys are serious about fishing, not about beer drinking. The fundie fella probably would not have gone with them, if they drank beer in the boat.
He won't go again. I promise you that.