From Clumber at Barkings Of An Old Dog in his own comments:
Well, in truth, haven’t we all had our period of “Saying the creeds with fingers crossed”? Same with the rest of it all… my theory is that in the course of our journey we all get lost, get found, get “it”, miss “it”, drop the ball, find the trail, loose it again, and miss the point, fail to hear the message, completely understand the Big Picture, and continue to repeat this throughout our life…. given that, what does a shared set of beliefs mean? If tomorrow I wake up confused, dazed, lost, and helpless and think I have to start saying the creeds with fingers crossed again, am I then out of the communion?
I say no.
As long as you want to be here, we want you here! Even if all the stuff that we say matters, doesn’t matter to you. Maybe you’re here for our coffee hour, maybe for the music, maybe for the smiles of the people around you. Eventually, God’s message will get through to you and me… or maybe it won’t. But the doors and the table are open for you to come and be fed, in whatever way you are fed at the Anglican Pub. Who are we to set up this club and create the membership rules? This isn’t our club, it’s God’s club. He holds the franchise rights here, not us. Our Anglican services do have rules, regulations, standards, but if you want to participate, then come on in and sit down. We have a lot of work to do here, and we can use all the hands we can get. The Kingdom of God is here! The first step in that is to live like you believe it. We need to stop checking credentials at the doors to God’s Church!
Blessings to all of you wandering this way and thinking about these things… it’s a joy to talk with each of you!
Amen, and amen, and amen to what you say, you old dog.
Rothko, Manet, Monet, and Clumber... I think it's pretty easy to pick out who doesn't belong in Club Mimi!
ReplyDeleteBut I am humbled to appear alongside people who think long and hard and deeply about "stuff that matters"™, such as yourself...
woof!
Woof back, you old dog.
ReplyDeleteAnd isn't this great, I can't keep up writing in 2 blogs and now I have to write a third! I think I need a dog nap!
ReplyDeleteClumber, relax. You have no responsibilities here. If I like something you write, I'll just lift it.
ReplyDeleteOh, okay! I'll continue to wag my tail about being in your blog!
ReplyDeletewell said, clumber. well said.
ReplyDeleteThanks, clumber. All the talk of covenants and common "beliefs" leaves me shaking my head, as well. I've never met anyone who didn't manage to drop or lose the ball countless times during their lives -- saints, included. In any event, I'd hate to spend much time in any church that didn't truly welcome people (and dogs) of all kinds.
ReplyDeleteThanks grandmère for bringing us clumber's words. [BTW, I'm afraid I can't keep up with your bloghopping. I left you my free legal advice over at clumber's. It's probably worth what you paid for it.]
This made me feel very happy indeed. Thank you Grandmère Mimi, and thank you Clumber.
ReplyDeletePJ, I'm always pleased to make folks happy, although the credit goes to Clumber. That old dog made me happy, too.
ReplyDeleteMimi, Mary Clara just spotted an error over in my "Road Trip" picture... I forgot to cut out a teeny tiny image that I was going to add to the picture except I could not scale it up enough without complete loss of detail... however, did I guess right on which person to clip from your NO photos?
ReplyDeleteClumber, you're the only talking dog I know, so perhaps I'm not good at dog listening. I honestly know know what the hell you're talking about here, you old dog.
ReplyDeleteWhat "Road Trip" picture?
This Road Trip!
ReplyDeleteThere's a tiny little head in the picture by the ABC's knee..
Sorry I got so excited...
Clumber, LOL. You have the right person. What happened to the rest of me? Did I get run over by the bike? Who shrank me?
ReplyDeleteWell, I cut your head out of your NO picture and pasted it into this one, hoping I could scale your image up for figure number one's head in the picture, but there was too much difference in image size, so by the time I scaled you up, there was no clarity to the picture... but I forgot to remove your image... well, now I know, and I won't tell anyone, promise!
ReplyDeleteClumber, don't worry. I'm "out there". Another set of pictures went up at DailyKos. No more secrets.
ReplyDeleteYa know, I haven't crossed my fingers while saying the Nicene or Apostle's Creeds, but I couldn't say that Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag of the 'nited states of 'murica without my fingers crossed. As a Boy Scout I played the bugle so I wouldn't have to say it (well, I was also Quite Talented on the Trumpet), but since I lived on Okinawa until I was 16, it didn't come up that often. If only I could work a doggy metaphore into this, I would fit in this thread!
ReplyDeletePadre Mickey, no one around here ever said you had to fit the thread. Nice to have you drop in.
ReplyDeleteWhat's with the pledge? Are you some damn commie or something?
Yeah, I'm a commie, but I'm also anti-idol worship, so dat prayin' to the flag stuff gives me the willies.
ReplyDeleteI'm afraid I've always had the same problem. A loyalty oath to a flag! Always hit me like something the Nazis, Mussolini Fascists, or Stalinists might come up with (dare I suggest the Covenant design process?). Actually, I believe the Pledge originated with a socialist, Francis Bellamy. But that doesn't make it o.k. by me. Idolatry is what it is.
ReplyDeleteI've got to admit, I don't like pledging allegiance to a flag, either. Whose idea was that?
ReplyDeleteIt does, of course, go on to say, "...and to the republic for which it stands." I see no inherent conflict between national allegiance and other allegiances. But I've never been that crazy about the Pledge, myself.
ReplyDeleteSome years ago I was asked to give a flag day speech. As I recall, as many as ten people crowded onto the town square that afternoon to hear it (that's counting my wife, mother, and then-infant son). I think I pretty much followed an idea I found best expressed by Chesterton, that patriotism is universal because it is particular; that is, that most people naturally prefer their little patch of ground, their homeland, their fatherland, their mother country (whatever hackneyed expression you want for it), and that whatever international fellow-feeling we try to foster has to take that into account, rather than suppressing that natural attachment. I think I also talked about the Greeks at Marathon.
Anyway, it didn't exactly do for me what the "Cross of Gold" speech did for Bryan.
Afterwards I was interviewed by the local TV station. All I remember was that it was so hot that, as I spoke, I could feel my glasses slowly sliding down my nose, and I couldn't coherently answer anything because all I could think about was how stupid I was going to look on the six o'clock news when my glasses fell off my sweaty face.
Happily, I think I was bumped off by somebody's dancing dog.
As I recall, as many as ten people crowded onto the town square that afternoon to hear it (that's counting my wife, mother, and then-infant son).
ReplyDeleteRick, LOL. What a gift for wit! And you've kept it mostly hidden away.
The glasses sliding down the nose moment was funny, too. Of course, you couldn't push them up, could you? You were on TV!
I know the flag is a symbol and all that, but it seems to have become an idol for some. That the flag takes precedence over the republic in the pledge is odd to me.
I stayed silent in my RCC church on the occasion of Legion of Decency pledge not to go to condemned movies, not because I went to condemned movies, but just on principle. Even as a teenager, I thought it was just not right.
Looking back, I see that I've often demonstrated a tendency to be headstrong.
This business of making a promise to do something you're already obligated to do is what we lawyers call an "illusory promise." If you're already bound, what more does the pledge do?
ReplyDeleteI suppose it has a certain "rah rah" value. But it suggests that we can avoid violating our duty by simply intending not to do so. St. Paul had a few choice words about the relationship of what we intend and what we actually do.
That's to be distinguished, say, from a real pledge. For instance, I have no general duty to obey the pope. Jesuits, on the other hand, require, distinct from every other order that I know of, a special promise of papal obedience. If they already had that obligation the promise would be illusory.
On the other hand, if I just promise not to sin, or not to commit a particular sin--well, I've already got that obligation. I am not more bound by a particular promise not to do so.
We do sometimes renew promises liturgically--the renewal of baptismal vows at Easter, for instance. One can quibble with it. It isn't a new promise. Presumably the original vow didn't expire. But it's more an existential declaration: Here I continue to stand.