In September, Bishop Katharine participated in the consecration of the new - and young, aged 32 - bishop of Western Pennsylvania, Sean Rowe. My good virtual friend Pseudopiskie sang in the choir for the event and posted wonderful pictures of at her blog Mom Said Nobody Cares.
Piskie also posted pictures from the rehearsal for the consecration on the day before. In the comments you will see that I had a few words to say:
Grandmère Mimi said...
Should I say this? Probably not, but I will anyway. I wish that Bishop Katharine would occasionally wear a skirt.
September 8, 2007 1:31 PM
PseudoPiskie said...
Mimi: I'll ask her about it tomorrow.
September 8, 2007 4:28 PM
Grandmère Mimi said...
Well, Pseudo, I did not know that you two were on such intimate terms. Lucky you.
I admire her so, but I'd like to see a variation on what appear to be men's pants and suits. But who am I to comment on something as trivial as her manner of dress? I suppose she wears what she's comfortable in....
So. I find that Piskie's going to ask her about why she wears what she wears.
Then Piskie put up a post just for me - for my information.
For Grandmère Mimi
Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori seldom wears a dress. She started wearing pants when she started to fly because dresses presented problems. She is more comfortable in pants. Her grey suit today was masculine. No, Mimi, I don't know her that well but I have talked to her quite a bit in the last two days. For me it has been a thrill having her here.
OK, I have that. Of course, Bishop Katharine can wear whatever she likes, right?
I know that some of you may be wondering why I'm running on about the PB's clothes, but hang with me. I will make an important point.
When Piskie found out that I was going to Christ Church Cathedral to attend the Eucharist in which Bishop Katharine would be presiding and preaching, she said this:
PseudoPiskie said...
I so wish you would have the opportunity to talk to ++Katharine! And tell her you are the person who asked about dresses. If you think she is impressive in procession, you need to meet her in person.
There you have it, folks. Did I have a choice about the subject of my conversation with the PB, if I had the opportunity to talk to her? I think not. Piskie forced me to talk to her about clothes. Of course, clothing styles is the subject that is uppermost in the minds of most thinking women anyway. Am I right?
Now when I tell folks I met with Bishop Katharine and chatted with her for a few minutes, I get profound questions like, "Did you call her Bishop Katharine Zeta-Jones?" and, "What did you talk to her about?" I can answer, "No!" and "Clothes!"
I said, "Welcome to Louisiana, Bishop Katharine." Then I went on, quite lamely, IMHO, to say, "Remember in Pennsylvania when Pseudopiskie asked you why you didn't wear dresses? I was the person who wanted to know." She smiled graciously at my lameness and told me that yes, she was more comfortable in pants, but that she does sometimes wear skirts.
That's the scoop. That's the gist of our conversation, because others were waiting to talk to her, and I had to move along. No talk of deep theology or the crisis in the Episcopal Church, just clothes.
Watch out for future "Skirt alerts!".
One of my questioners said, "That was probably refreshing and a great relief from the heavy conversations." That could be true. I hope it was.
Anyway, Piskie made me do it.
Is this (this & Bishop Jenkins) the cause of the jovial comments elsewhere in the Blogosphere about your kissing up to bishops, or is this your retaliation?
ReplyDeleteLapin, it may be the cause of jovial comments, but it is not retaliation. It is the truth written with an ironic twist.
ReplyDeleteI do not agree with everything Bishop Katharine says or does, but I think that it's possible that she was the best choice that TEC could have made.
I don't kiss up to bishops or anybody. I don't have to. What do I have to lose? I hold no position of power in the church. I am merely a simple pew-warmer. That gives me a certain freedom to speak out that others may not have.
Maybe we can get Peace Bang to feature you and the PB in her blog -- Mississippi Mimi questions Katharine Zeta Schori on her fashion choices. Love it - I am sure she was grateful to have a chat rather than someone boring her about TEC, the AC, etc. I was a worse goof at GC after she was elected - a friend begged me to get her signature in books the friend had written - so I did and felt like a jerk. The thinks I do for love!
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of books, I wanted to get her autograph on my copy of her book but do you think I could find it? Not until a week later.
ReplyDeleteI suspect that ++Katharine had a welcome private laugh, especially considering that two of her fans live many miles apart and "know" each other. At least Mimi and I should get to meet in New York. I can't wait.
Ann, that would be Louisiana Mimi.
ReplyDeleteI know how you feel. The things we do for our friends.
Piskie, I'm looking forward to meeting you, too.
Well, I'm glad you asked. I wear pants too, long and short depending on the weather. I do it because I prefer the shoes that go with pants to the shoes that go with skirts. It's really all about the shoes for me. I don't want to wind up like one of those women in the movies who is running from their attacker and then, just as they are about to get away, the heel on their manolos breaks. I want to be able to make my escape. But, I would sometimes like to see the PB looking womanly in something colorful and flowing.
ReplyDeleteYour tomboy blogging buddy,
Lindy
I prefer pants too. But, that's because I'm a man dog.
ReplyDeleteWOOF!
Rowan
But Mimi, whatever you talked about you were in the presence! Can I have your autograph?
ReplyDeleteD.P.
Lindy, I wear pants a lot myself, mostly because of the shoes, too.
ReplyDeleteMy shoes that go with dresses and skirts call for stockings or pantyhose, and I can't stand to wear either one, so I often opt for the pants. I believe that I was wearing pants the day I met the PB.
Man dogs wear pants? Who knew?
DP, you may have my autograph, but there's a fee associated with it. I use PayPal.
Wow! I wear pants every day! Let's start a club!!
ReplyDeleteI'm happy that you were able to meet la Primada; very cool!
Let's start a club!!
ReplyDeleteYes! We'll invite La Primada to join.
And we'll be inclusive. And all members will be equal - really, really equal.
ReplyDeleteThe "We Wear The Pants Club"? LB
ReplyDeleteJust a comment on our (Mimi's and my) bishop, Charles Jenkins. I've had my differences with him, but in my opinion he has shone as a bright light throughout this whole process. He is certainly conservative (Windsor-compliant, if you like), but he also has the common southern trait of political compromise, which, I believe, is a theological virtue. And I think he is largely responsible for saving The Episcopal Church by holding to the center and getting others to go along with him.
ReplyDeleteLB, excellent choice.
ReplyDeleteI'd rather wear pants mostly too, but I wear skirts and dresses for work.
ReplyDeleteI try to keep my shoes as comfy as possible.
it isn't always possible.
Ormonde, I absolutely agree about Bishop Jenkins.
ReplyDeleteEileen, it's the pantyhose and stockings. I hate 'em.
ReplyDeleteOh great now I have made myself a goof on this list too - I know Louisiana -- duh. I wear pants most of the time (it gets to 30 below here in the winter) but not on Sundays when I preside in my vestments. It is the pantyhose issue - I do love summer when I can wear shoes or sandals that don't need stockings. I like the club idea - and no hazing to get in either.
ReplyDeleteAnn, not to worry about your goof. I goof a lot, too.
ReplyDeleteIn the summer, I wear dresses more, too, with my sandals and no stockings.
How refreshing to chat about the PB without entangling it all in church politics. How incarnational to look at our shared humanity and physical reality. We need more conversations like this in order to have real conversation about other things. Way to go, GM!
ReplyDeleteI wear skirts a lot. I would wear more pants if I had more nice pants outfits. At this call we are Professional. At my last call (out in the country) I wore pants more often. some of the women pastors got flack for wearing pants, but I never did. don't know why. My people thought, well, duh, it gets to 20 below zero, why wouldn't you wear pants then?
ReplyDeletePaul, I should have written in the post that Bishop Katharine is quite approachable and easy to talk to. She has grace and dignity, but she is not at all intimidating.
ReplyDeleteI hope our conversation was refreshing and not plain silly, but she's got to love me either way.
Diane, it's good to know that you are our dressed-for-success pastor, on the way up, I'm sure. I can't believe that church folks would still complain about women pastors wearing pants.
I think a pants club is a super idea but the real criteria for membership should be whether or not you put them on one leg at a time. I would say that's a must.
ReplyDeleteoh yeah and my dog doesn't wear pants OR skirts. and she's a girl. unfortunately, she is wearing a cone right now.
ReplyDeleteIt's really all about the shoes for me.
ReplyDeleteLindy...my sister!!!
No sexy shoes for this chick. I'd wear sneakers 24/7 if I could get away with it. Sneakers don't go very well with dresses.
My daughter got mighty confused a few years ago when she was telling me that girls wear dresses and boys wear pants (where she got that, I'm not sure)---and I pointed out to her that I wasn't sure she had ever seen me in a dress.
And I, too, have met and conversed with +Katharine. As Mimi says, she radiates calm and is very approachable. I'm still pissed at her over what I consider to be the latest stab in the back to my GLBT friends, but she is an impressive person.
I pray that one day, her skills will be put to use to heal the wounds she and her bishop buddies have inflicted on GLBTs, in the futile attempt to buy the approval of that bunch of GS bishops who just declared that they won't recognize her orders (or any of the other TEC bishops' either).
(Sorry for the run-on sentence. I get that way when I'm in a snit...)
As I've grown older, comfort is the main consideration with shoes - and clothes, too - nothing tight or binding. For comfort, I'd wear dresses and athletic shoes every day, if I didn't want to look like the little old lady in tennis shoes.
ReplyDeleteThe contradictions in the HOB statement bother me the most. They could have been honest, at the very least.
Nevertheless, I have hope. TEC is in a better place than I thought we'd be just a couple of years ago, and I believe that time is on the side of full inclusion.
Diane, my dog is nekkid, too.
Jasper usually sports a stylish bandanna for a week or so after he goes to the groomer, but that's it.
ReplyDeleteMy daughter is desperate for me to buy Jasper a Halloween costume, but I think he would be so embarrassed to be wrestled into a costume. I just don't have the heart to do it to him.
Doxy, perhaps just a t-shirt for Jasper?
ReplyDeleteI wore dresses until recently. They weren't pretty but they were comfortable, especially in summer. Mom left some gorgeous clothes which fit me. But I won't wear any dress/skirt/pants/shorts that doesn't have pockets which limited the clothing I kept. Most of those were pants so now I have some lovely pants outfits. I also hate to shave my legs - a bit which made PBKJS laugh.
ReplyDeleteI'm so glad others have had a chance to spend even a moment with our Presiding Bishop. What a joy she is!
Piskie, since you've made your confession that you hate to shave your legs, I'll go you one step further and confess that I never shave my legs in the winter.
ReplyDeleteEither the pants or the dreaded stockings cover up the hairy legs, so why bother?
Mimi, thanks for performing this vital public service. You really put yourself on the line for all of us.
ReplyDeleteI bet Padre Mickey wears pants every day just so he won't have to shave his legs. 'Cause that would take up valuable time and he gots so many people to minister to and and care for in his wonderful parroquia, plus the Friday Night Red Mister Peanut Bank and Gallito Mescalito show and his daily blogging responsibilities to keep up with.
Maybe if I quit shaving my legs I would have time to start my own blog. But I confess I love the feeling of my smooth legs.
Isn't it funny that this clothes business matters enuf even to joke about. But the fact is, I think PB Katharine is a good-looking woman and would enjoy seeing her in a pretty dress or a well-tailored skirt suit, just for the sheer variety of it. I think the secret is that women have been given beauty and variety as part of our turf. We have a long cultural history of being the ones who display for the benefit of the human race the whole spectrum of color, pattern, shape, movement, texture, aroma, and so on, not just as personal expression or a statement of family dignity, respectability or wealth (consumerism), but because we all need the soul-nourishment of seeing and smelling beauty. It's accepted that men may (and even should) look virtually the same from day to day, but we want women to embody variation and change -- the two cosmic principles. Bishops, however, are like military officers: they wear uniforms while on duty. Which means we have to endure the frustration of not getting to see PB Katharine Zeta Schori in glam duds. This is one of the little conundrums of change in the church. We finally got women priests and bishops, but the uniform (which was built on masculine principles) is still the same except for minor alterations in proportions. Thank goodness for vestments, which give clergy of both genders a chance to take part in the ceremonies of beauty!
I personally love clothes and shoes, but it's gotta be comfortable, and that mostly means pants, or skirts that work with comfortable sandals or boots. So I wouldn't wish the pantyhose obligation on anybody, especially my PB. Maybe what we could do is develop a PBKJS paper doll that could be dressed up in her bishop uniform but also in civvies! She is tall and could really wear designer clothes, I would think. Or, why not a Presiding Bishop Barbie, with a complete wardrobe from mitres to nighties? Now there is a project to keep some of us out of trouble for awhile, take our minds off schism and apostasy, etc.
Anyhow, put me down as a charter member of the We Wear the Pants Club. And PBKJS should be the Number One Honorary Member.
Mary Clara these words are too good to remain in the comments. Pretty soon, I'll be lifting all my posts from my comments.
ReplyDeleteYou lay yourself on the line too, Mary Clara. I almost wet my panties reading your comment. You see, with old ladies, it's not so much spewing drink on the keyboard, as having to make a quick run to the potty.
Would it be overdoing it to post again on PBKJS' clothes and other weighty matters?
I'm asking seriously, because I'm thinking I'd like to post this with your permission and if you don't think it would be too much.
Mimi, this is such a great thread. I really got inspired by the earlier comments. I'd be honored to have you post this if you wish. I don't think it is too much. If you like you can add the following (it could go after the third paragraph):
ReplyDeleteThe playful interest in our PB’s wardrobe is a reflection of our soul speculating on deeper matters and longing for wholeness. I mentioned the two cosmological principles of changelessness and change, which we associate with masculine and feminine respectively. There is also the old idea that the soul has two aspects, one that changes and one that remains ever the same. One is like the sun, the other like the moon. Traditionally, male priests and bishops (in their uniforms) followed the solar model of the God who is 'the same yesterday, today and tomorrow'. That leaves the lunar principle of change and variation without a human embodiment; it is expressed instead in the beautiful vestments and the liturgy and in the turning of the liturgical year (which combines elements of the old lunar calendar with the solar).
The Church has long been a refuge for men who love lace and parades and beautiful table services. In other words, androgyny has been there all along. But now we have a tall, confident female person heading our Church, wearing the (male)uniform. It is natural for us to wonder whether she is allowed, without reservation, to bring 'the feminine' with her. To me she seems very much a woman and quite at home with herself in her role. There's a dame inside that uniform (hence MadPriest's nickname for her, Katharine Zeta Schori!). She is not an imitation male. Our fantasies of seeing her in silks and laces (or at least a tailored skirt), our wonderings about these little details of her bodily and aesthetic life, show our own love of the feminine and our wish that it be given its true dignity and included in the blessing. Ultimately, I don't think it is overstating the matter to say that the question about skirts has to do with the possibility of the union of opposites in the soul -- and in the Church.