Monday, October 8, 2007
On Torture
Image from AntiWar.com.
The picture above is one of the least cruel at the the website. I could not bear to post any of the crueler depictions of the treatment of the prisoners at Abu Ghraib and have to look at it every time I went to my blog. But I keep in mind that the prisoners are living in the nightmare, and not simply hearing the stories and seeing the pictures.
I've been digesting the long article on torture that was published in the New York Times last week. I printed it so I could read it more than once. Although there's much commentary on the article, I thought I should take note, but I've been putting it off and finding other things to write about, because of a sort of dread.
From the New York Times:
When the Justice Department publicly declared torture “abhorrent” in a legal opinion in December 2004, the Bush administration appeared to have abandoned its assertion of nearly unlimited presidential authority to order brutal interrogations.
But soon after Alberto R. Gonzales’s arrival as attorney general in February 2005, the Justice Department issued another opinion, this one in secret. It was a very different document, according to officials briefed on it, an expansive endorsement of the harshest interrogation techniques ever used by the Central Intelligence Agency.
The new opinion, the officials said, for the first time provided explicit authorization to barrage terror suspects with a combination of painful physical and psychological tactics, including head-slapping, simulated drowning and frigid temperatures.
Mr. Gonzales approved the legal memorandum on “combined effects” over the objections of James B. Comey, the deputy attorney general, who was leaving his job after bruising clashes with the White House. Disagreeing with what he viewed as the opinion’s overreaching legal reasoning, Mr. Comey told colleagues at the department that they would all be “ashamed” when the world eventually learned of it.
James Comey seems to have had a conscience, but he's gone. The secret opinions and secret signings have no place in the functioning of our democratic government, although the democratic part of the phrase seems to be disappearing rather quickly as an accurate description.
Congress and the courts have attempted to rein in the Bush maladministration on the treatment of prisoners, but under a veil of secrecy, the shocking maltreatment of prisoners continues. Abu Ghraib is no longer used by the US to house prisoners, but now we have Guantanamo and the "black sites" in unknown countries where torture can be practiced without notice or interference. The US courts have said that the prisoners must be removed from the "black sites", but because of secrecy, we're not sure that the orders of the courts have been followed.
When Alberto Gonzales was appointed Attorney General, I thought, at the time, that there was probably nothing that Bush or Darth Cheney would ask him to do that he would refuse.
The definition of lackey from Merriam-Webster:
1 a : FOOTMAN 2, : SERVANT b : someone who does menial tasks or runs errands for another
2 : a servile follower : TOADY
What do you think? Does the description fit the actions of Gonzales? If he was ordered to do it, he would. He was just following orders.
When he stepped down as attorney general in September after widespread criticism of the firing of federal prosecutors and withering attacks on his credibility, Mr. Gonzales talked proudly in a farewell speech of how his department was “a place of inspiration” that had balanced the necessary flexibility to conduct the war on terrorism with the need to uphold the law.
Associates at the Justice Department said Mr. Gonzales seldom resisted pressure from Vice President Dick Cheney and David S. Addington, Mr. Cheney’s counsel, to endorse policies that they saw as effective in safeguarding Americans, even though the practices brought the condemnation of other governments, human rights groups and Democrats in Congress. Critics say Mr. Gonzales turned his agency into an arm of the Bush White House, undermining the department’s independence
God defend us from the effects of such places of inspiration. And he calls what they've done being "flexible"? Stretching the conscience to the point where it breaks into useless fragments is what I'd call it.
From the secret sites in Afghanistan, Thailand and Eastern Europe where C.I.A. teams held Qaeda terrorists, questions for the lawyers at C.I.A. headquarters arrived daily. Nervous interrogators wanted to know: Are we breaking the laws against torture?
The Bush administration had entered uncharted legal territory beginning in 2002, holding prisoners outside the scrutiny of the International Red Cross and subjecting them to harrowing pressure tactics. They included slaps to the head; hours held naked in a frigid cell; days and nights without sleep while battered by thundering rock music; long periods manacled in stress positions; or the ultimate, waterboarding.
Never in history had the United States authorized such tactics. While President Bush and C.I.A. officials would later insist that the harsh measures produced crucial intelligence, many veteran interrogators, psychologists and other experts say that less coercive methods are equally or more effective.
The CIA received advice on the hastily conceived program for conducting interrogations from "Egypt and Saudi intelligence officials and copying Soviet intelligence methods...." - all teachers with sterling reputations for conducting interrogations in an ethical manner.
There was frequent questioning back and forth between the interrogators and the Justice Department as to whether this practice or that practice was legal, for the practioners were concerned about having to face consequences for operating outside of the law.
“We were getting asked about combinations — ‘Can we do this and this at the same time?’” recalled Paul C. Kelbaugh, a veteran intelligence lawyer who was deputy legal counsel at the C.I.A.’s Counterterrorist Center from 2001 to 2003.
Interrogators were worried that even approved techniques had such a painful, multiplying effect when combined that they might cross the legal line, Mr. Kelbaugh said. He recalled agency officers asking: “These approved techniques, say, withholding food, and 50-degree temperature — can they be combined?” Or “Do I have to do the less extreme before the more extreme?”
They're slicing and dicing the policies, questioning what sort of harm can be done by one human being to another human being before a line is crossed into breaking the law. Nothing about what is ethical, what is moral. Just thinking of this sort of conversation taking place is appalling to me, much less considering the consequences that follow for the prisoners and the people who actually execute the practices deemed lawful. Make no mistake: the people who participate in these activities pay a heavy price.
Mr. Kelbaugh said the questions were sometimes close calls that required consultation with the Justice Department. But in August 2002, the department provided a sweeping legal justification for even the harshest tactics.
That opinion, which would become infamous as “the torture memo” after it was leaked, was written largely by John Yoo, a young Berkeley law professor serving in the Office of Legal Counsel. His broad views of presidential power were shared by Mr. Addington, the vice president’s adviser. Their close alliance provoked John Ashcroft, then the attorney general, to refer privately to Mr. Yoo as Dr. Yes for his seeming eagerness to give the White House whatever legal justifications it desired, a Justice Department official recalled.
Mr. Yoo’s memorandum said no interrogation practices were illegal unless they produced pain equivalent to organ failure or “even death.” A second memo produced at the same time spelled out the approved practices and how often or how long they could be used.
When Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the head planner of the 9/11 attacks, was detained, severe interrogation methods were used against him, which may have the effect of making it impossible to obtain a conviction against him in a court of law.
Occasionally, by bureaucratic slip-up, a person of conscience was hired by the Bush maladministration, but like Mr. Comey and others, they did not stay long.
The doubts at the C.I.A. proved prophetic. In late 2003, after Mr. Yoo left the Justice Department, the new head of the Office of Legal Counsel, Jack Goldsmith, began reviewing his work, which he found deeply flawed. Mr. Goldsmith infuriated White House officials, first by rejecting part of the National Security Agency’s surveillance program, prompting the threat of mass resignations by top Justice Department officials, including Mr. Ashcroft and Mr. Comey, and a showdown at the attorney general’s hospital bedside.
Then, in June 2004, Mr. Goldsmith formally withdrew the August 2002 Yoo memorandum on interrogation, which he found overreaching and poorly reasoned. Mr. Goldsmith, who left the Justice Department soon afterward, first spoke at length about his dissenting views to The New York Times last month, testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee on Tuesday.
I saw Goldsmith on Stephen Colbert's show, and I remember him saying that the Bush maladministration ran smack up against the law, and he called them on it, but, of course, he was soon gone.
If President Bush wanted to make sure the Justice Department did not rebel again, Mr. Gonzales was the ideal choice. As White House counsel, he had been a fierce protector of the president’s prerogatives. Deeply loyal to Mr. Bush for championing his career from their days in Texas, Mr. Gonzales would sometimes tell colleagues that he had just one regret about becoming attorney general: He did not see nearly as much of the president as he had in his previous post.
Don't you feel his pain? Doesn't it clutch at your heart that Gonzales was not in the awesome presence as often as before. Adoring, or what?
Words from James Comey in a speech at the NSA headquarters in 2004:
“It takes far more than a sharp legal mind to say ‘no’ when it matters most,” he said. “It takes moral character. It takes an understanding that in the long run, intelligence under law is the only sustainable intelligence in this country.”
Mr. Gonzales’s aides were happy to see Mr. Comey depart in the summer of 2005.
I'm quite sure they were happy to see Mr. Comey go. He seems to have been a fairly consistent thorn in their sides.
John D. Hutson, who served as the Navy’s top lawyer from 1997 to 2000, said he believed that the existence of legal opinions justifying abusive treatment is pernicious, potentially blurring the rules for Americans handling prisoners.
“I know from the military that if you tell someone they can do a little of this for the country’s good, some people will do a lot of it for the country’s better,” Mr. Hutson said. Like other military lawyers, he also fears that official American acceptance of such treatment could endanger Americans in the future.
“The problem is, once you’ve got a legal opinion that says such a technique is O.K., what happens when one of our people is captured and they do it to him? How do we protest then?” he asked.
From Robert Baer in Time:
The CIA is still torturing, according to the New York Times, and the Administration is still denying it. "The government does not torture," Bush said Friday.
So what do you call simulated drownings - waterboarding - and slapping and freezing, techniques that were approved in a 2005 secret Department of Justice legal opinion? If the Eighth Amendment prohibits American police from waterboarding suspects, common sense tells me it's illegal.
But legal or not, the important thing to remember is that torture doesn't work. When I was in the CIA I never came across a country that systematically tortures its citizens and at the same time produces useful intelligence. The objective of torture, invariably, is intimidation.
Robert Baer, a former CIA field officer assigned to the Middle East, is TIME.com's intelligence columnist and the author of "See No Evil" and, most recently, the novel "Blow the House Down".
For me, the ethical argument carries much greater weight than the practical argument that torture does not produce useful intelligence. The practical argument against torture is simply another example of the stupidity and incompetence that the Bush maladministration demonstrates on a daily basis.
If a country considers itself to be civilized, then torture is not to be tolerated. How did we get into the position in which we argue whether or not torture is the way to go? It's partially because in the upside-down world of Bush and his minions, they declare that torture is not torture, and some are taken in by this deception. And it's the secrecy. We do not know what's going on behind the curtain of secrecy, until long after the dirty deeds are done.
I don't know why I do long posts like this with the quotes and the links. The material is there in the NY Times and the other links, available for reading by anyone who takes the trouble at sites that receive far more visitors than I, but, somehow, I come around to thinking that I need to do them.
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I am glad you do long posts. Remember your international readership who wouldn't necessarily think to google the NYT for no particular reason.
ReplyDeleteYou are right about mixed up values and a supposed civilised society. We have lost our way on this one and it diminishes us all by association.
D.P.
DP, I didn't think about my vast international following. Maybe there's some sense to it after all.
ReplyDeleteWe have truly lost our way.
Your long post seems necessary. Worse and worse these people are--"Mr. Yoo’s memorandum said no interrogation practices were illegal unless they produced pain equivalent to organ failure or “even death.”" Golden Rule anyone??? How low the US has sunk and continues to go. . . . .
ReplyDeleteJan, Yoo's statement shocked me when I first heard it, and it shocks me today. What kind of people think like this?
ReplyDeleteI think we have to do these long posts. I try to find some tidbit to add to the NYT -- and the amazing reality is that I mostly do. One of the ways that torture and other ethical horrors become normalized is that we start thinking: "I don't have to talk about it; everyone knows."
ReplyDeleteBut we do have to talk about it -- not only because everyone doesn't KNOW in the same sense that those of us who feel driven know -- but also because talking, and acting, against these horrors is how we express our own commitment to a civilized polity.
Grandmère, when I first became aware of what we were doing, I was incredulous. My mind simply could not go there. That the U.S. would operate gulags, which is what we are doing, was beyond my ability to grasp. It is still very painful to realize. We really do need to fight against this. We need to make sure we elect officials who will not make a mockery of our constitution. It may take years and years to undo the damage done by our current leaders.
ReplyDeletethis is a long post and I don't have time to read it all right now, but suffice it to say that we are all out of wrack on torture. I'll be back a little later to read the whole thing.
ReplyDeletePlease keep doing long posts. You never know who might read them. This stuff needs to see the light of day as much as possible.
ReplyDeleteJames Comey seems to have had a conscience, but he's gone.
That sentence is this administration in a nutshell. Only the name keeps changing.
And Alberto Gonzales is something far worse than a toady.
I weep for our country.
You do these posts because some of us don't take the time to read the NY Times and we appreciate those of you who do and who share it with us.
ReplyDeleteYou're seeing the photos that Compa and I saw in April 2004 when the whole Abu Ghraib prison scandal broke. We were walking the Camino de Santiago in Spain -- first take -- and we were sure that we were seeing photos that people in the US weren't. The daily paper, El Pais, translated all of Seymour Hersch's article from the New Yorker. And when we would walk into a cafe/bar they would assume we would want to watch the news and change the channel to CNN in English (out of Germany), even though we really didn't. One day I had an old priest come up to me, shake his finger at me and say with as much distain as he could muster: 'Es malo, es muy malo.' We tried to do damage control by saying we were equally horrified and the government did not equal us and we asked for forgiveness.
ReplyDeleteThis is a vitally imporant post. You did it brilliantly dearest Grandmere.
ReplyDeleteI was going to post on this topic but have not. Then I was going to cross post (link in a moment) but did not.
I feel so weighed down by it all. But that is a poor reason not to write about it.
Go check out this post at Kiko's House. Fantastic.
I'm retired, and the rest of you are working. That's one reason that I have more time.
ReplyDeleteIt's a kind of bearing witness, and I suppose I do it as much for myself as for others - to work off a little of the anger and frustration at the state of things.
Caminante, how ashamed you must have been. I feel, in some sense, complicit, because it's the leaders of my country who do this evil.
Fran, I will check out the other site.
Thanks all of you for your support, because sometimes I feel that I waste my time, and that my small voice counts for nothing.
I'm glad you did this, Mimi. It's troubling.
ReplyDeleteOne of my worst memories is seeing a waterboarding victim pitched about 6 feet--almost two meters--to the ground; she may or may not have been bound. It didn't matter to the way she hit the ground; she was in a coma. It was only the beginning of my Vietnam tour.
ReplyDeleteThe MP team took over the disposition of the Detainee--status: accused; they watched from the guard booth while the woman lay on boards at the back of the tent being looked over by other women detainees throughout the day and night.
She was still in the coma the next afternoon when the MPs removed her. That's "waterboarding".
"We have truly lost our way."
ReplyDeleteNor are we any safer. Instead of building relationships and trust with the Islamic and Arab worlds, which could give us reliable information about possible terrorist activities in their communities, we act like this and antagonize those who could be our allies.
I think they're just sick, twisted people who were looking for some excuse to act this way.
Johnieb, what a memory to have to live with. I'm sure that you saw much more as you continued on in your tour there.
ReplyDeleteNo wonder you are haunted. Just the pictures haunt me.
John, we are not safer. We are much less safe, in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteThere's sickness and evil and the odor of mendacity about in the land.
A prime reason we are much less safe, Mimi, is that the right wing, drawing from Watergate the "lesson" that Nixon was ultimately destroyed by the Supreme Court, has, for the last 25 years, been working to systematically stack the US court system with judges who will consistently uphold and expand the power of the executive against the legislative branch and, unbelievably, against the judiciary itself. Whatever the Supremes say is law IS law. With the two most recent additions to the Court, Roberts & Alito, we're at tipping point. When civil liberties hang on the decisions of Anthony Kennedy, things are pretty dicey. Five conservative Roman Catholic judges - a majority - think about it. All of whom start the Court's annual session attending a Mass of the Holy Ghost, presided over by the archbishop of Washington. Not even the appearance of inpartiality.
ReplyDeleteYoo's statement shocked - and still shocks - me. Ashcroft's reaction to him is interesting.
Our true moral superiority over the terrorists of this world lies in the fact that we DO NOT behave as they do. Once we loose sight of this distinction, get down on their level, and claim that we have the moral right to do so, where is the difference? Like the close of "Animal Farm", we look from man to pig, and from pig to man ......
That it may be impossible to obtain a valid conviction against a thug like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed because of the severe interrogation methods used against him beggars belief!
Thanks for your wonderful post, and for the keen outrage you hold onto, even as our country's moral standing spirals down the toilet. The truth is that a vast number of Americans have been programmed to ignore anything published in the NY Times, trusting Faux News to filter reality for them.
ReplyDeletePlease maintain your outrage, because I'm down to despair.
And yet, and yet, it's the courts, stacked as they are, that have put the brakes on at least some of the worst of the excesses.
ReplyDeleteI have my moments of despair, too, vacillating from unbelief, to outrage, to despair.
and on top of it all, the Dems that we elected to end this mess are now set to permanently extend the exemptions to the FISA court requirements for wiretapping.
ReplyDeleteamazing. it is like they go to Washington ready to make the changes that we demand - and then they are converted to Stepford congressmen and women.
Thank you, Mimi, thank you.
ReplyDeleteI've got a book for you:
The Lucifer Effect: Understanding How Good People Turn Evil by Philip Zimbardo
He writes about the Stanford Prison Experiment done back in the early '70's and then compares his results to what happened at Abu Ghraib, putting the whole system on trial. It's a good and a must read.
Dennis, don't get me started on the Democrats. What a disappointment!
ReplyDeleteCynthia, thanks. I'll look for that book.
Thank you Mimi. As you may know I have posted various comments about this on Jake's site and others, espcially the searing statistic that Christians are more likely than atheists to approve this stuff! (Which is not to say that all Christians do, obviously, but I betcha it's the conservatives who are the approvers.)
ReplyDeleteI find it incomprehensible that the Episcopalians and other Christians are getting themselves in an uproar over same sex relationships when actions of real evil are abroad in the world, being committed in their name.
They can work up outrage over two men kissing, but do not turn an eyelash over torture at Abu Graib, extraordinary rendition to Syria, abolition of habeus corpus for Jose Padilla (whome we have certainly driven completely mad) and sadistic abuse at Guantanimo.
These people make me sick and ashamed to be an American--both the do-ers amd the facilitiators. I used to think we stood for something. Now I feel like a Roman peasant watching the decline and degradation of the empire. And all those politicians in DC are complicit.
IT
These people make me sick and ashamed to be an American--both the do-ers amd the facilitiators.
ReplyDeleteI'm ashamed, too. I haven't left the US, except for brief forays from a cruise ship into Canada, since the Iraq War began. I'm too embarrassed to admit I'm an American right now.
And yes, all the attention to what folks do in private, when one huge crisis after another calls for our time and attention, seems like sickness to me.