In Tobias' own words:
You are, of course, quite welcome to remain firm in the belief that you are a part of the only true church -- as that is a part of the Orthodox tradition. You can keep lobbing insults at Rome or Anglicans to your heart's content. But where I come from such behavior is seen as a kind of pathology, and at the very least a bit ungracious -- and hardly likely to win anyone to your side of the divide.
Tobias writes at In A Godward Direction, among other places.
UPDATE: I've met Tobias, and he is a lovely man and a wonderful priest. We happen to agree on the big things, but I know that if I crossed swords with him, the outcome would be foreordained.
I agree, in a way. I've yet to see anyone who can beat how you put heart and soul and mind into what you believe. And they're all good--heart and soul and mind. The only one who can make you decide you're wrong is you.
ReplyDeleteNot to put down Fr. Haller, of course.
I find help in my ways from both; I just left Tobias a "Thank you!" and here's yours for the link: mwah!
ReplyDeleteOh hell,
ReplyDeleteI forgot to make explicit my affirmation of kishnevi's praise of your wisdom, which is like that of Fr. Haller's in some ways, but not all, but equally worthy of praise.
Well, thank you. If Toby and I happened upon an area of disagreement, say East-facing Eucharists, I'd take it behind closed doors, so I would not be a public spectacle.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you introduced me to Tobias!
ReplyDeleteJan, I am, too.
ReplyDeleteWhy, my dear Mimi! Should we ever disagree, we would know how to behave like the lady and gentleman we are -- at least in public! I've enough of the South in me (via my grandmother) to know how to disagree without rancor. What troubled me in Phil's post is the idea he seems to have that you can lob insults in someone else's "home" (i.e., blog) and think that to be acceptable. To disagree is fine; but I still find it troubling that Phil doesn't seem to see how ungracious it is to call us Anglicans a "cafeteria" in which the theological debate is like Shakespeare's idiot's tale, full of "sound and fury, signifying nothing."
ReplyDeleteIn the meantime, a big hug to you for your continued witness here chez l'Oiseau Blessé!
"Phil" you say ? Could it be that our Br. Tobias is fencing with "YBIC Phil" from T1:9 ? (the same who trolls over at Fr. Jake's to amuse himself and intentionally infuriate others ?)
ReplyDeleteIf so, then I have a friendly warning my brother Phil - you won't win that fencing match. Tobias' is bigger than yours :) and wielded much more adroitly...
Tobias, I never cease to be amazed that folks continue to argue, when they have already dismissed the argument as silly and without merit. And, as you say, in your own house.
ReplyDeleteHugs back to you, love.
Ahhh...I've found the right comment thread over at Tobias' blog and I seem to have my "Phils" confused. Tobias looks like he's sparring with one from the Eastern Orthodox Church...
ReplyDelete"My" Phil (and he is a member of my diocese) is prone to the fallacies of Appeal to Authority and Proof by Verbosity, but not to that extent! Sheesh!
I'm also sure "Orthodox Phil" would be horrified by "Evangelical Protestant" Phil ;)
David, you're right. I don't think that the two Phils would hit it off too well with each other.
ReplyDeleteHeh, true. But it might be fun to stuff 'em in a room together and lock the door for awhile. ;)
ReplyDeleteA room without Internet access. Please.
.... and all this over the subject of women's ordination. Wow. I don't get out enough. Probably because when I do get out, that's when I am reminded of my opponents.
ReplyDeleteDavid, a room with a one-way mirror so we could watch.
ReplyDeleteDiane, I'm sure that when you're the object of such continuing opposition, it gets old really quickly. Even though I am not clergy, I tend to take the assaults and insults against women clergy personally.