In the comments to this post:
Mary Clara said...
I'm with JohnieB: I'm waiting for the war crimes trials and the treason trials and the chance to see the Bushies led away in orange jumpsuits and leg irons. Of course, I also think people who voted for Bush and Cheney (esp. in 2004, when the evidence was in)should have to pay a penalty too. Maybe they could be required to subsidize the care and support of one injured US veteran of the war for the rest of his life, or pay reparations and support to an Iraqi family displaced, traumatized and impoverished by the bloody war, or spend six months in NOLA rebuilding ruined houses.
I think Grandpere may be right. Obama didn't win by a landslide, and in fact didn't even get a majority of white votes (even here in heavily Democratic Maryland, which really shocked me). Yet Andrew Kohut reported a week or so ago that according to his polling, about two-thirds of the population are now optimistic that Obama will be able to handle the problems ahead and think that things will get better! I think that's amazing.
I think he is going to govern from the center and pull in everybody who can help come up with solutions. The situation is so drastic that it provides an opportunity to get out of fixed patterns of thinking and ideologies that have been blinding people to what is really going on. The people he appointed today as his economic advisers don't seem to be ideologues; they are just very smart and very seasoned people, with a remarkable range of experience to bring to their task. It will be difficult to adjust to having people of that sort running the government, just as it is a shock to have a President (-elect) who can speak in complete, grammatical sentences and complete a thought, even when responding to questions at a press conference.
People are going to get behind the new President (even before he is sworn in) because they know their own livelihoods and future financial security may depend upon his being able to lead us out of this mess. Even the officials of the outgoing maladministration know that their own asses are on the line. Forget about a 'legacy' (it's way too late for that), it's about whether their own stock holdings and other assets are going to become worthless. The good thing about this is that the right-wing operatives who dogged the Clintons, and who would surely like to bring Obama down with their slime machine, are not likely to succeed. People are going to have other things on their minds besides whatever crap the neocons can invent or insinuate about him.
And we all said, "Amen".
There'll be no war crimes trials, Mimi. First, there will be the matter of Bush's end of term pardons. There is no limit on the president's constitutional power to pardon. A single document can indemnify everyone from Dick Cheney to every guy sweeping Iraqi floors for Haliburton.
ReplyDeleteEven without that let-out, what chance do you see that any US administration will allow a war crimes trial to proceed? Won't happen because of the precedent and standard it will set for subsequent administrations. Seen Henry Kissinger behind bars lately? Remember how many years William Calley spent in jail for My Lai?
"We hanged people at Nuremberg for less than what these folks have done," observed Prior Aelred.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the Bushies should be tried. I also agree that they probably won't.
I have heard talk about some kind of a commission to shine the light of day on all this crime and to name names; trials and convictions or not, pardoned or not.
Something has to be done to restore the rule of law, and to assure the rest of the world.
While I'd like to see trials, I don't think they will come to pass. I doubt that Obama wants them, and the Congress, with the exception of a few members, doesn't want them, either. But, since the Bush maladministration operated in such secrecy, there is much that we don't know, and things could come to light that would force investigations.
ReplyDeleteI too was rather looking forward to the "perp walk". But Alas! On the other hand, if I were in their shoes, I might be very careful
ReplyDeletewhen planning holidays abroad.
I think that there will be no trials, as others have said. So be it.
ReplyDeleteWe must move forward - God help us all!
Of course, renzmqt is right. My rant about a war crimes trial and holding Bush voters responsible was just a late-night flight of imagination. It may be that information will surface that will lead to prosecution of some members of this administration, and I would not rule out someone trying to bring Bush & Co before an international tribunal, but I doubt anybody will end up in jail. The main thing is for us all -- citizens, Congress, the press -- to learn from this experience, to take responsibility for what our nation has done to itself and others, and to reverse the wrong directions that were taken.
ReplyDeleteThe difficulty with holding a trial or an extended investigation is that it could become a source of polarization and partisan rancor. It would also probably drain away energy that we urgently need to apply to other tasks. The Clinton impeachment trial wasted a year out of our national life, with no benefit to anybody other than one or two lawyers and a few Congressmen who got a lot of screen time. It would take a lot more than a year to get to the bottom of the Bush-Cheney mess and come to any resolution.
On the other hand, I think the Watergate and Iran-Contra investigations, and the prosecutions that followed, were important and necessary. So maybe there will be a similar necessity with the present mess.
Still, Mary Clara, I liked your rant. We don't always need to be 100% realistic. I don't believe that anyone will end up in jail, but some kind of accountability may be forthcoming.
ReplyDeleteRenz, I wonder if the old Democratic members of the next Congress will grow spines during the break and the newbies come already equipped with spines. It could happen.
ReplyDeleteRenz, sorry about your pinched nerve. Prayers for that.
ReplyDeleteNixon was rehabilitated in his later years. Kissinger is still giving advice. I'm not sure how long Bush will be in disgrace. We have short memories in this country. But you're right, we must look forward.
Renz, I'm glad the Swamp Angel's prayers are working. I'm not really from the swamps. I live in bayou country. There is a difference.
ReplyDeleteFord may not have been the brightest bulb in the White House, but he did not do nearly the damage to the country as Bush.
Send the poster on.
Renz, I devoured Nancy Drew. They couldn't put them out fast enough for me. The library didn't carry them back then, because they were not "good literature", so my friend and I bought different titles and exchanged the books.
ReplyDeleteWe have wisteria, but we've lost Ann Rice.