Ruth Gledhill's guest blogger at the Times Online is none other than - Tah-dah! - Canon Dr. Chris Sugden reporting on the ACNA gathering in Texas.
Chris writes: 'Many will be quick to find fault with the launch of the Anglican Church in North America, a church representing a Sunday attendance of 69,000 Anglicans in 23 dioceses across the USA and Canada.
'It will to all intents and purposes be the 39th province of the Anglican Communion.
....
'Many orthodox clergy and congregations who have resisted TEC’s practice and direction have been driven out of their churches and buildings. Some individual church members have been sued for upwards of half a million dollars.
'What were the faithful bishops and clergy who cared deeply for their people and the teaching of the faith to do?
Driven out of their churches? Puh-leeze! How about walked away voluntarily with property that was not theirs that the courts subsequently ordered them to return to the proper owners?
Visitors from the Church of England included Bishop John Ellison, assistant bishop in the Diocese of Winchester. Greetings were read from the Bishops of Rochester, Winchester, Chester and Chichester.
The Church of England bishops roost for a brief spell in Texas before their return home to roost in England. I saw this coming, and I tried to warn the Archbishop of Canterbury, even as he scolded and lectured us in the Episcopal Church about how to be a proper church, but he would not listen. I said over and over again, "Archbishop Williams, take care. The chickens will go home to roost!"
See Pluralist Speaks on the FoCA gathering in London beginning July 6.
Note: Baby Blue Online live-blogged the ACNA gathering.
Driven out of their churches? Puh-leeze! How about walked away voluntarily with property that was not theirs that the courts subsequently ordered them to return to the proper owners?
ReplyDeleteOn this basis, is the Church of England going to return all of its property built before 1534 to the Roman Catholic Church?
Tim, I have no idea. I do know that the folks gathered at ACNA walked away. They were not driven away. I'd have a great deal more respect for them if they had left without trying to take property that was not theirs. Some did leave honorably, and I admire them for that.
ReplyDeleteExactly, some did leave honorably and I too ¨admire them for that¨...even the ones that got special ¨deals¨ at least were willing to sit and discuss appropriate ways to seperate/settle (and it worked out well for them, mostly). What I truly resent is manipulative premeditated deceptive ¨leaving¨...I read in the case of All Saints in Long Beach, California the rector had assured Bishop Bruno of his ongoing committment and brother love (Diocese of Los Angeles) a day or so before declaring him/themselves part of The PROVINCE of UGANDA! When it gets down to common understandings of right vs. wrong...well, this ACNA/CANA/etc cluster is mostly a very shabby lot who refuse to take responsibility for their many greedy and devious actions (Grace and St. Stephens/CANA and pastor Armstrong come to mind).
ReplyDeleteHaving mercy has to do with HELPING those who are demoralized, marginalized, victimized and spiritually abused at Church (my opinion)...most everday vile corruption and abuse is happening in Nigeria (anti-human rights legislation), Uganda (deadly witch hunts), Kenya (inquistions/witch burnings=murder) and Sudan (rampant rape, theft, exploitation, false witness, and accross the board violating of other human beings)...I think the English Canon Chris Sugden (who always seems to be at the heart of those operating in DENIAL and instigating destruction at The Anglican Communion) ought preach TRUTH and stop with the illusions of doing ¨good¨ while destroying other Anglicans, friendships and families.
Leo, don't hold back. Tell us what you REALLY think.
ReplyDeleteI wonder how high they had the AC cranked up for those English bishops in Texas? I doubt that they are used to 100F in the shade. "Oh, but it's a dry heat," ... like a blast furnace.
ReplyDeleteAs for all the eager obituaries being written about the Episcopal Church and the AC of Canada:
"We will bury you!" shouted Nikita Kruschev.
I know all about the dry heat at 100° from a visit to Phoenix some years ago, with the unrelenting sun beating down every time you step out the door or from under a shelter. It ain't fun.
ReplyDeleteDo you think it's a 'chester' thing? Sounds like a rather bad firm of lawyers.
ReplyDeleteTim, furthermore, when I left the Roman Catholic Church around 15 years ago over the child abuse and cover-up in my own diocese, I could have said that I was driven out - that I didn't leave my church, that my church left me. The thing is that would not be true.
ReplyDeleteNo one drove me out. No one told me to leave. I left by my own choice and subsequently joined another church. I could no longer call myself a Roman Catholic after that. And I never had illusions about who owned the church property.
TheMe, I was struck by the "chester" thing, too.
ReplyDeleteAnd then there's Tim Chesterton. Sorry, Tim. I couldn't help myself.
ReplyDeleteThere is Tim Chesterton too but thats at the beginning and not the end so a completely different thing. I am in favour of giving all the churches back to the RC's as they are the only ones here with enough money to keep them open.
ReplyDeleteI am not at all sure that church property and ownership were understood as they are today --especially before the separation of church and state. All property was Real Estate --belonging to the Rey (king). Church property was not seen as being owned by "Rome."
ReplyDeleteSo comparing the past to the present in church property ownership is not possible.
If so, let's not stop at churches --but let us return the property we sit upon to those from whom we took it.
Churches and other "new" organizations founded on anger, resentment, and exclusion really aren't all that viable. And you have to realize that within this group of walk-aways there is substantial disagreement on sacramental theology and the ordination of women.
ReplyDeleteIf so, let's not stop at churches --but let us return the property we sit upon to those from whom we took it.
ReplyDeleteMargaret, indeed!
Mark, I've wondered many times how the diverse groups will manage to hang together.
I don't think they will stay together very long. They are not together now. I think the energy of Christianity is outward. These folks are something like a whirlpool with a strong inward/downward current. All of that said, I totally respect their religious freedom. I do not have one ounce of hostility towards them. They are God's sons and daughters, too. I pity them because they seem so very unhappy and are missing out on so much joy. I just don't want them trying to follow the lead of their African sponsors by trying to criminalize same-sex relationships (or same-sex lunches) in the USA. And I think TEC resources (buildings, funds) should belong in TEC.
ReplyDeleteAgreed, Mapko.
ReplyDeleteNow, to this "driven out" nonsense. To the best of my knowledge, we have one local "network" church, and I have yet to hear anyone suggest that they leave TEC, though I certainly have heard members of that church speak very ill of the rest of us. If in fact they are where they do not belong, can they not understand that perhaps they are being "led" out? I agree with Mapko, they seem to have little joy in their faith, but I do believe that all parts of the church have their role to play, even if we can't understand it.
And, I cannot resist adding this thought, as I do not see myself as a victim, but being driven out (I can't put it in quotes, because it was true.) of the faith setting of my youth was one of the best things that ever happened to me. In fact, it was not a "driving", but as it turned out, a "leading," and I was blessed because of it, in spite of what others thought of me. I knew peace. If those forming new denominations (I'll call them a province when they actually are one.) do not know peace in the midst of their storm, they might want to stop a moment and wonder why.
And now, I must clean the home. No, perhaps I should check Facebook first. Mimi might have have posted a personal hygiene update of great import.
Ruth Gledhill, she once at a Unitarian GA talking about her ancestors... Why does she encourage people like Chris Sugden and also traditionalists? Because she wants controversy. And look at the creepy way Chris Sugden writes, he to churchship what Ruth is with journalism.
ReplyDeleteDr. Pluralist, thanks for the word from the inside.
ReplyDelete