Do you sing "I sing a song of the saints of God"? It is definitely British and was in the 1940 Hymnal under children's hymns. If you check below the hymn for the hymn tune, and author of the words you will see many English poets and composers names attached.
No, Susan, we didn't sing that hymn, but it proves my point. The hymn that I remember best from yesterday is one that I particularly dislike, but it's not British Empire:
The only "American Empire" hymn that readily come to mind is: "God Bless America." It is still sung during the 7th inning stretch of every NY Yankee home game. Plus, when the game is broadcast on a NY station (as opposed to national) there is a contractual agreement with the Yankees that the station cannot go to commercial in the 7th inning until after the hymn is broadcast.
Yes, the loud clashing symbols one was written for a school...I keep thinking St Olaf, which is not of the british empire. Our Choir Director/Organist went to St. Olaf, and he hates it. We usually sing it when school starts, as we're directly across the street from University of California, Berkeley. I don't know how he got out of it this year!
"Christ the victorious" is sung to the tune of "God save the Czar" (familiar from the 1812 Overture, complete with cannon); and "Glorious things of thee are spoken" is, of course, sung to "Gott erhalten Franz den Kaiser" (known much later as "Deutschland, Deutschland ueber alles." Then we have our own national songs at the back of the book.
Ever since Constantine we have tended to confuse empire with the reign of God, and our music reflects that as much as anything else.
You have to take into account your paranoia about the British, so it probably is just you. But if it makes you feel better we sing "Mine eyes have seen the glory."
I think I might have mentioned that our congregation has a significant percentage of Barbadians and Jamaicans. For a lot of the older parishioners the classic British hymns are a big part of their childhood. In fact, "I sing a song of the saints of God" was a favorite of mine from the time I could first sing. (And when you take into account that it was written by a woman whose first name was Lesbia - well, how prophetic can you get? I don't know whether there are any hymns written by men named Catullus.)
The point about the Battle Hymn of the Republic is kind of interesting as well. That must also be an interesting one in South Louisiana. One of the first Ship of Fools Mystery Worshipper entries I ever read was from someone who attended a Memorial Day service at a parish in Virginia and wrote with great disdain about having to sing a "Battle Hymn."
My mom (who grew up in New York) says she still misses a hymn she sang as a girl that described the length and breath of the British Empire. She liked the descriptions of the various foreign lands and the way it gave her a feeling for the vastness of the Earth.
O beautiful, for pilgrim feet Whose stern, impassioned stress A thoroughfare for freedom beat Across the wilderness!
are omitted from the Hymnal version. It's my favorite example to use when talking about the fact that General Convention gives us a very specific (and often rather odd) set of words to sing, while leaving the choice of music more-or-less open.
MadPriest, you're right about the paranoia. That's due to the the cruel treatment of my Cajun ancestors by the English when they expelled them from Canada in the 18th century.
Mary, the the Episcopal Church hymnal was not part of my childhood, so there's no nostalgia. "I Sing a Song of the Saints of God" is a little geography lesson. Written by Lesbia? Hmmm.
In the Civil War, both sides sides sang "The Battle Hymn". I like to sing it still.
4 May, I never noticed that the verse you mention from "America, the Beautiful" was missing from the hymnal. Live and learn.
Do you sing "I sing a song of the saints of God"?
ReplyDeleteIt is definitely British and was in the 1940 Hymnal under children's hymns. If you check below the hymn for the hymn tune, and author of the words you will see many English poets and composers names attached.
Oh, yes indeed. Empire upon Empire, and not just British....
ReplyDeleteNo, Susan, we didn't sing that hymn, but it proves my point. The hymn that I remember best from yesterday is one that I particularly dislike, but it's not British Empire:
ReplyDeleteloud clashing cymbals
loud pounding hammers
loud boiling test tubes (What!)
Margaret, which other empires do you detect? The American empire?
The only "American Empire" hymn that readily come to mind is: "God Bless America."
ReplyDeleteIt is still sung during the 7th inning stretch of every NY Yankee home game. Plus, when the game is broadcast on a NY station (as opposed to national) there is a contractual agreement with the Yankees that the station cannot go to commercial in the 7th inning until after the hymn is broadcast.
Doug, what about "America, the Beautiful"?
ReplyDeleteO beautiful, for pilgrim feet
Whose stern, impassioned stress
A thoroughfare for freedom beat
Across the wilderness!
The Native Americans may not agree with the sentiments.
Yes, the loud clashing symbols one was written for a school...I keep thinking St Olaf, which is not of the british empire. Our Choir Director/Organist went to St. Olaf, and he hates it. We usually sing it when school starts, as we're directly across the street from University of California, Berkeley. I don't know how he got out of it this year!
ReplyDeleteI am startled to read this, startled, I tell you.
ReplyDelete"Christ the victorious" is sung to the tune of "God save the Czar" (familiar from the 1812 Overture, complete with cannon); and "Glorious things of thee are spoken" is, of course, sung to "Gott erhalten Franz den Kaiser" (known much later as "Deutschland, Deutschland ueber alles." Then we have our own national songs at the back of the book.
Ever since Constantine we have tended to confuse empire with the reign of God, and our music reflects that as much as anything else.
Paul, thank you for your contributions. Perhaps I should strike out the "British".
ReplyDeleteEmpire? Christian triumphalism? In our hymns? Say it ain't so!
ReplyDeleteOnward Christian soldiers...
ReplyDeleteThe 19th century also had the idea of muscular Christianity which probably affected the hymns.
Paul and Erp beat me to the punch Grandmere.
ReplyDeleteI like "loud clashing symbols" hymn -- fun to sing. Of course there are English hymns - that is why we are called the Anglican communion. LOL
ReplyDeleteThe British empire hymns always make me smile. What are we doing? Why are we singing these hymns in south Louisiana?
ReplyDeleteYou have to take into account your paranoia about the British, so it probably is just you. But if it makes you feel better we sing "Mine eyes have seen the glory."
ReplyDeleteI think I might have mentioned that our congregation has a significant percentage of Barbadians and Jamaicans. For a lot of the older parishioners the classic British hymns are a big part of their childhood. In fact, "I sing a song of the saints of God" was a favorite of mine from the time I could first sing. (And when you take into account that it was written by a woman whose first name was Lesbia - well, how prophetic can you get? I don't know whether there are any hymns written by men named Catullus.)
ReplyDeleteThe point about the Battle Hymn of the Republic is kind of interesting as well. That must also be an interesting one in South Louisiana. One of the first Ship of Fools Mystery Worshipper entries I ever read was from someone who attended a Memorial Day service at a parish in Virginia and wrote with great disdain about having to sing a "Battle Hymn."
My mom (who grew up in New York) says she still misses a hymn she sang as a girl that described the length and breath of the British Empire. She liked the descriptions of the various foreign lands and the way it gave her a feeling for the vastness of the Earth.
Hi--
ReplyDeleteHave another look at #719. These four lines:
O beautiful, for pilgrim feet
Whose stern, impassioned stress
A thoroughfare for freedom beat
Across the wilderness!
are omitted from the Hymnal version. It's my favorite example to use when talking about the fact that General Convention gives us a very specific (and often rather odd) set of words to sing, while leaving the choice of music more-or-less open.
Happy Michaelmas--
MadPriest, you're right about the paranoia. That's due to the the cruel treatment of my Cajun ancestors by the English when they expelled them from Canada in the 18th century.
ReplyDeleteMary, the the Episcopal Church hymnal was not part of my childhood, so there's no nostalgia. "I Sing a Song of the Saints of God" is a little geography lesson. Written by Lesbia? Hmmm.
In the Civil War, both sides sides sang "The Battle Hymn". I like to sing it still.
4 May, I never noticed that the verse you mention from "America, the Beautiful" was missing from the hymnal. Live and learn.
Happy Michaelmas to all.