Two leading Lutheran clerics have rejected suggestions from the Vatican that it could create a subdivision for converted Lutherans similar to its structures for Anglicans who join the Roman Catholic Church.I can only conclude that the arrogance of the authorities in the Roman Catholic Church is without bounds. Lutheran leaders told Rome what to do with their my-way-or-the-highway offer for Lutherans to have their own separate pen similar to those of the converts to the Anglican Ordinariates. Lutheran Bishop Weber suggested that those members who want to be in full communion with Rome should simply join the Roman Catholic Church, which I think is very sensible. The "Anglicans" in the ordinariates are, in fact, Roman Catholic converts.
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Bishop Friedrich Weber, the German Lutheran liaison with the Catholic Church, said the idea was unthinkable and amounted to "an unecumenical incitement to switch sides."
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Archbishop Gerhard Mueller, head of the Vatican's powerful doctrinal office, was reported in Catholic media last week as saying Rome might envisage a special section for Lutherans.
[The Rev Martin] Junge said very few Lutherans wanted to switch to the Catholic Church and creating a special subgroup for them would complicate ties between the churches and confuse Lutherans who wanted to work in harmony with Catholics.
Thanks to Ann V for the link.
Yes, June, strange reading in the NHemisphere Week of Prayer for Christian Unity. Unity by absorption.
ReplyDeleteBlessings
Bosco
Since church atttendance in the RCC is in decline, I wonder if the invitation to establish the ordinates is an attempt to keep the numbers up.
DeleteThe timing certainly seems very odd and out of sync with the ecumenical activities this week.
Bishop Friedrich Weber, the German Lutheran liaison with the Catholic Church, said the idea was unthinkable and amounted to "an unecumenical incitement to switch sides."
ReplyDeleteHow is Bishop Friedrich Weber not correct? ...
Dear The Vatican, stop it with the land grab already. It's a) patronising b) dishonest c) greedy. And probably a few other things besides!!
Cathy, I'll sign your letter.
DeleteMimi, I see that I have completely neglected to say, "Why thank you, Mimi" :)
DeleteI do like the fact that one of the reason given by the Lutheran spokespeople for refusing is that Lutherans would become "confused". Well, I'm certainly confused.
Thank you, Mimi :)
ReplyDeleteThe Vatican have, however, always had one eye out for potential land grabs that may present themselves, and I don't suppose they plan to stop any time soon. :(
It does come across as a little pathetic though in some ways. "Don't you want to be in our gang?" ...
ReplyDeleteIt's a mad scheme, Cathy. I wonder how the Anglican/Roman Catholics are doing.
DeleteBadly, I hope.
Delete(I know that's uncharitable.)
DeleteI can't see the ordinariates working all that well, but I do wish them peace.
DeleteI only wish they would have written out their objections to this offer and then nailed it to the door of the church in Wittenberg... again!
ReplyDeleteAmen, SCG. Wouldn't you have wanted to hear Anglican/Episcopal leaders speak so directly and forcefully on the ordinariates?
DeleteGiven the current pope and his history, it sounds more like "The Lutherans have, historically, always been a part of the Roman Catholic Church, and, besides, we need lebensraum!"
ReplyDeleteMark, that is so funny. Shame on you.
DeleteThey asked, or at least had the common courtesy to give advance warning this time around? What gives?
ReplyDeleteLutherans are not Anglicans. Rome thinks Anglicans are pushovers, and they are correct, at least with regard to the leadership. It is true that the plans for the ordinariates were a fait accompli when Anglican and Episcopal leaders learned about them, but still the response was weak.
DeleteIf the Holy See institutes an ordinariate for Lutherans, I think it will be in the interest of accommodation and invitation, not compulsion. Compulsion rarely makes good converts, as Lutherans and Catholics can all attest. So, if I see the Swiss Guards scouring the streets for Lutherans to drag by their heels into the RCC, I will certainly email the Pope and alert him. ;)
ReplyDeleteWhat does the Vatican offer Lutherans and Anglicans that they do not already have? The authority of the pope is all I can see, and that's a heavy yoke, indeed. Of course, for those who choose the yoke, I hope they find peace.
DeleteThe timing of the offer during the the Week of Prayer for Christian Unity seems off to me, but it may seem quite right to Rome.
The authority of the Pope is not a yoke but a great blessing. I'm a member of one of the Anglican Ordinariates Pope Benedict created, and I can't tell you what a great answer to prayer it has been. It is proving to be a great success and I thank God for it. I did not want to become a typical Roman Catholic, but now I can be Catholic and in full Communion with all other Catholics, including the Pope, without ceasing to maintain my Anglican culture and heritage.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Francis P, when you say you "did not want to become a typical Roman Catholic," are you using the word "typical" in reference to liturgical differences? Or something else?
DeleteFrancis P, thanks for weighing in. If you're happy, I'm happy for you. I'm curious. When someone asks you which denomination you belong to, what do you answer?
DeleteI gather that's all the gentleman had to say. Mimi, it appears the Vatican is watching your blog (sinister music plays)
DeleteCathy, it appears our questions will not be answered. Do you think the Vatican is watching?
DeleteConsidering the two millennia of often murderous consequences of the only recorded instance of Our Lord's cracking a funny - the Simon/Peter/Rock business - we should probably be thankful that no other recorded instance of his humor has survived.
ReplyDeleteSo you think Jesus was making a joke, Lapin?
DeleteA pun, certainly. Better a joke than serious, in light of the consequences.
DeleteThe Peter/Rock and Jesus giving him the keys to the Kingdom and binding and loosing have puzzled me for a long time. At one period in the church, three men claimed to be pope. Which man had the keys?
DeleteThese Lutheran spokespeople *do* understand that the Vatican doesn't give a flying fadoodle what they think? O_o
ReplyDeleteAnd I expect the Vatican now understands what the Lutheran leaders think of the ordinariate.
Delete