I have some good friends in St. Louis who grew up in Bologna. I met the family patriarch when I visited Bologna 20 years ago. He was a crusty old buzzard; a veteran of the Italian Partisan Fighters in WWII, and a Socialist of the old anticlerical school. He always said that the reason priests wear black is so that we can take better aim at them.
While there are many priests whom I love, I confess to being a tad anti-clerical in general. The Italians are far worse than I. Of course, I don't contemplate doing violence to any of them.
I think MadPriest is already a little frightened. Maybe priests are more of a target in England than I know.
Diane, I think that I've met up with one too many heavy-handed, MALE clerics that have soured me. However, despite that, I am able to love and appreciate the good priests I know and have known. It's about hurts that go way back, and I guess I can't shake them off completely. That's as honest as I can be and still say to you, Diane, I love and admire you, and I think you have the true heart of a pastor - even if I have never met you in person. I've told you that before, and I mean it.
It's complicated. I'm not talking about serious child abuse or anything like that. It's patriarchal, patronizing, and authoritarian attitudes and actions that put me off. It's a hurdle that I have to get over, but I do manage that for good priests.
At first I did not even know Paul, the BB, was a priest, and I was a little taken aback when I found out. I thought I might think or feel differently about him after that, but after a day or so, I was over it. I think Paul knows all this and won't be surprised if he reads it.
I'm afraid I've mucked up this comment, but it's the best I can do, and I hope and pray that I have not caused hurt to anyone, especially to you, Diane. If I have, forgive me.
Mimi, I have proudly labeled myself as anti-clerical for decades. Just because I am one doesn't mean I trust or respect us as a group. When gathered in groups we usually do damage. Yet I know wonderful, dedicated priests whom I admire, love, and respect.
Still, the inappropriate power attributed to the role does corrupt. It's the puffed up and proud clergy, of any stripe, that get my blood boiling. There is so much spiritual abuse out there and one of my ministries is helping people heal from it.
Trust and respect are earned; they do not come automatically with funny collars, or limp leather Bibles/prayer books.
I take it as a compliment that you did not, at first, know I was ordained.
Loved Maxine, but folks, IMO most of us in the Blogosphere are more than a tad anti-clerical.
Paul you aren't the only anti-clerical cleric, many of my ancestral units were deacons, priests and bishops here in the USA, and back in the British Isles and a good number of them were anticlerical for the very same reasons you are. They were very aware that power corrupts and did not need the temptations.
According to family legend one on being informed that King Charles II wished to elevate him to Canterbury, shuddered and told the messenger "get thee behind me".
By themselves the vast majority are wonderful people, but put more than a handful together in the same room and we should all run for cover.
The idea of several hundred talking only to each other in isolation at Lambeth, makes my bllod run cold.
Gerry, I just blurted that out, and there's truth in it, but I don't like hurting people. I sometimes forget that many of the folks who read and leave comments are clergy, a daunting thought all on its own, because I spout off on subjects in which I have little expertise. I'm blessed in that all the clergy who leave comments here have the right stuff.
LMAO!
ReplyDeleteSPOT ON, if you ask me.
ReplyDeleteI have some good friends in St. Louis who grew up in Bologna. I met the family patriarch when I visited Bologna 20 years ago. He was a crusty old buzzard; a veteran of the Italian Partisan Fighters in WWII, and a Socialist of the old anticlerical school. He always said that the reason priests wear black is so that we can take better aim at them.
ReplyDeleteWhat would Madpriest say?
While there are many priests whom I love, I confess to being a tad anti-clerical in general. The Italians are far worse than I. Of course, I don't contemplate doing violence to any of them.
ReplyDeleteI think MadPriest is already a little frightened. Maybe priests are more of a target in England than I know.
Very funny and true!
ReplyDeleteanti-clerical?
ReplyDeletejust checking.
Diane, I think that I've met up with one too many heavy-handed, MALE clerics that have soured me. However, despite that, I am able to love and appreciate the good priests I know and have known. It's about hurts that go way back, and I guess I can't shake them off completely. That's as honest as I can be and still say to you, Diane, I love and admire you, and I think you have the true heart of a pastor - even if I have never met you in person. I've told you that before, and I mean it.
ReplyDeleteIt's complicated. I'm not talking about serious child abuse or anything like that. It's patriarchal, patronizing, and authoritarian attitudes and actions that put me off. It's a hurdle that I have to get over, but I do manage that for good priests.
At first I did not even know Paul, the BB, was a priest, and I was a little taken aback when I found out. I thought I might think or feel differently about him after that, but after a day or so, I was over it. I think Paul knows all this and won't be surprised if he reads it.
I'm afraid I've mucked up this comment, but it's the best I can do, and I hope and pray that I have not caused hurt to anyone, especially to you, Diane. If I have, forgive me.
Mimi, I have proudly labeled myself as anti-clerical for decades. Just because I am one doesn't mean I trust or respect us as a group. When gathered in groups we usually do damage. Yet I know wonderful, dedicated priests whom I admire, love, and respect.
ReplyDeleteStill, the inappropriate power attributed to the role does corrupt. It's the puffed up and proud clergy, of any stripe, that get my blood boiling. There is so much spiritual abuse out there and one of my ministries is helping people heal from it.
Trust and respect are earned; they do not come automatically with funny collars, or limp leather Bibles/prayer books.
I take it as a compliment that you did not, at first, know I was ordained.
Paul, thank you.
ReplyDeleteLoved Maxine, but folks, IMO most of us in the Blogosphere are more than a tad anti-clerical.
ReplyDeletePaul you aren't the only anti-clerical cleric, many of my ancestral units were deacons, priests and bishops here in the USA, and back in the British Isles and a good number of them were anticlerical for the very same reasons you are. They were very aware that power corrupts and did not need the temptations.
According to family legend one on being informed that King Charles II wished to elevate him to Canterbury, shuddered and told the messenger "get thee behind me".
By themselves the vast majority are wonderful people, but put more than a handful together in the same room and we should all run for cover.
The idea of several hundred talking only to each other in isolation at Lambeth, makes my bllod run cold.
Gerry, I just blurted that out, and there's truth in it, but I don't like hurting people. I sometimes forget that many of the folks who read and leave comments are clergy, a daunting thought all on its own, because I spout off on subjects in which I have little expertise. I'm blessed in that all the clergy who leave comments here have the right stuff.
ReplyDelete