There is “general pessimism” among bishops of the Anglican Church of Canada about the potential for “any clear resolution” of the divisive issue of sexuality at the church’s upcoming General Synod in Halifax this June.
This is one of the many observations recently made by two pastoral visitors from the U.K. who were deputized by the Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams. They were invited to attend the four-day meeting of the House of Bishops last November in Niagara, Ont., at the request of Archbishop Williams. Archbishop Williams is seeking ways to heal divisions among member provinces of the Anglican Communion.
....
The visitors said they were also reminded frequently by bishops that “Canada is not the USA.” While the United States is seen as a melting pot culture where religious and ethnic groups are synthesized into “Americans,” Canadians “genuinely value and seek to live with diversity.” Differences between the Anglican Church of Canada and The Episcopal Church were underscored, including the area of Christology. “We sensed that in Canada there was a general consensus on the nature of orthodoxy, with fewer extreme views of the kind that have led to some of the aberrations south of the border,” the report said. “Even the bishops who were strongly progressive in the matter of same-sex blessings insisted that they stood firmly within the creedal mainstream.” This, the report said, is “an encouraging sign that it allows for a more obviously Christ-centred approach to issues that currently divide the Communion, to say nothing of the wider church.” (My emphasis)
They never let up. The Archbishop of Canterbury's representatives pay a visit to Canada to report on the situation in the Anglican Church of Canada, but they cannot resist a dig at the Episcopal Church. Maybe we should stop paying attention or caring what the ABC and his minions say.
H/T to John Chilton at The Lead.
Sigh.
ReplyDeleteIt is the usual hatred of the US that colors all the ABC's men's thinking.
ReplyDeleteWhich leads me to wonder why a person would choose to label himself(and I think they are all hims)a "Windsor bishop" to cozy up to the unspeakable ++Rowan while still holding jurisdiction in TEC.
ReplyDeleteI suspect the ABC should have done a major housecleaning when he moved into Lambeth. He wasn't strong enough to resist the poison left from the previous boss and finally succumbed to it.
ReplyDeleteNot all "he" -- Bp Wolf of Rhode Island is one of the Windsor bishops
ReplyDeleteWe sensed....
ReplyDeleteWhich means they have pulled the entire thing out of their asses (pardon my French)!
Creating "facts" out of thin air must get exhausting after a while. It's a wonder +Rowan and Co. are still standing, though maybe that deal they made with the Devil is what gives them so much energy....
Hm... so what the Diocese of New Westminster did prior to dioceses in TEC, blessings of same-sex couples, is less extreme than what the ABC accuses TEC of doing?
ReplyDeleteI've about had it.
Canadians generally take a shot at ¨Americans¨ whenever they get a chance (as does most of the World since George Bush but Canadians have most always done it)...I think it´s a tradition...now, Americans quite often take a shot at Mexicans whenever they get a opportunity...most often they are wrong about ¨Mexicans¨ and most often Canadians are wrong about ¨Americans¨...Now Guatemalans dislike Mexicans and Puerto Ricans dislike Cubans and Dominicans...on and on it goes (I´ve even heard it said that some Englishmen think Yorkshiremen are daft) and up until recently I had a ¨thing¨ about some ¨Texans¨...I never think about Costa Ricans but I know the Costa Ricans are obsessed with Costa Ricans...and Father Mickey admits to disliking the Confederate Flag (I´ll vote for that).
ReplyDeleteThis was not the Canadians - it was the visitors from the ABC
ReplyDeleteI lived in Britain for a number of years. For a certain type of liberal Brit, America = crass, crude, rich, and stupid. They cannot resist a dig at us.
ReplyDeleteWhen those kinds of people met me, and liked me, they asked cheerfully what part of Canada I was from. It was why savvy Yanks sewed a Maple Leaf on their backpacks.
OTOH one of my Canadian friends, when she copped an attitude, told people she was a yank.
As Ann said, these were not the words of the Canadians.
ReplyDeleteAs Doxy said, "We sensed...." means they pulled the words out of their asses.
There's never going to be an even, objective assessment coming from Lambeth so why do we even bother?
ReplyDeleteLet's just cut our funding to the Anglican Communion as a body, give it to places where it will do some real good for people who can more than use the help and let God sort out the rest.
Just my $.0149 after taxes.
Minions of Cantuar wouldn't know Orthodox if the Cappadocian Fathers bit them on the ... oh, never mind.
ReplyDelete(I´ve even heard it said that some Englishmen think Yorkshiremen are daft)...hello, it´s simply all ¨gossip¨ and nasty ¨unverified¨ accusations...that´s what the ABC and his ¨men¨ have now sunk to..they will attempt to shore-up +Rowans ¨snide¨ campaign against U.S.A. and flatter Commonwealth Canadians into thinking they are somehow more Communionlike.
ReplyDeleteDislike of the Americans is what unites +Rowan's men and +Carey's...
ReplyDeleteThey haven't got much else...
These folks should be reminded that slander is one of the signs of disorder cited by Paul in Romans 1(30). False witness also is one of the Big Ten.
ReplyDeleteBut I must add that the British (and much of the rest of the world) harbor (or harbour) very deep prejudices against Americans. (Not that we don't deserve some of it from our varying isolationist and imperialist phases) but much of the reaction to the Episcopal Church is actually based on national reaction to US foreign policy, and a belief (no doubt enhanced in places where the church is established, such as England... ahem) that the state and the church are adequate reflections of each other.
Tobias--I can buy that from the person on the street....but not people like +Rowan. He has every reason in the world to know the difference.
ReplyDeleteHe is a man of no integrity. Simple as that.
Doxy
I think it important to remember that this wasn't Rowan, but two bishops appointed by him.
ReplyDeleteI will say, however, that I have experienced the "culture gap" with church leaders who "ought to know better." Their cultural reaction often gets the better of their "heads." I ran into this as the only American on the Continuing Indaba group -- the rest were British or African -- and the "impressions" these well educated folks have about the US run very deep indeed!
Please also note that much in this piece is equally a reflection of Canadian view of the US -- it isn't just the bishops from Gt. Britain.
We Americans need to be aware of how we are perceived -- that doesn't mean the perceptions are right, but they are real.
Sorry Tobias--I should have made clear that I assumed the Lambeth Lackeys were simply parroting what they had already been told to find.
ReplyDeleteThese folks should be reminded that slander is one of the signs of disorder cited by Paul in Romans 1(30). False witness also is one of the Big Ten.
This is the crux of the matter. If they continue to spout lies and misrepresentations about others, even though they have been told--time and again--that their words are untrue, they are sinning. And they shouldn't get a pass because they want to hang on to their prejudices with both fists.
Quite right, Doxy. It's just I've never heard Rowan say this about TEC -- he's said some other dumb things, true, but I've not heard him suggest any general pattern of unorthodoxy. The thing he really wants is for our bishops to be more authoritiative.
ReplyDeleteI sense more and more that the comments in this case were meant more as pats on Canadian heads than slaps at TEC. "Oh, Miss Maywood, if only all my parishioners were as faithful as you are..." Classic dysfunction in church leadership... but then again, English bishops are appointed, not elected, so their pastoral skills often Bite the Big One. Perhaps also this may be a Macaca moment -- did they know their comments would be public? Not to excuse them, but just to show how much more fools they...
The Anglican Communion is more and more being modeled on the worst of the British Public School system, it appears...
Ding ding ding ding! Tobias wins the prize! it IS like public school (which in the US is private school), elitist arrogance and where homosexuality is overlooked as long as you hide it.
ReplyDeleteAfter all, how many same sex unions are being blessed in the UK?
I hate the smell of hypocrisy.
It is an attempt to divide and rule in terms of the Covenant, to try to reduce the numbers of provinces that will say no whilst seeking to exclude the one problem province. The Canadians need to see this for what it is, and not be seduced along. Nothing is being smoothed out.
ReplyDeleteDoesn't ecclesiastical politics stink and find the lowest common denominator of operation? They must think we are blind.
Who is this Rowan Williams of whom you speak? And, is it a place, this Lambeth? I've never heard of them and recognize neither.
ReplyDeleteNow, let's all just get on with it.
As Ann said, these were not the words of the Canadians.
ReplyDeleteUm - these actually were the words of members of the Canadian House of Bishops, as the Anglican Journal article makes clear:
The visitors said they were also reminded frequently by bishops that “Canada is not the USA.” While the United States is seen as a melting pot culture where religious and ethnic groups are synthesized into “Americans,” Canadians “genuinely value and seek to live with diversity.”
Tobias is right on this score - the pastoral visitors were accurately reflecting what they heard from the Canadian House of Bishops. The end of the report in the AJ says:
Archbishop Fred Hiltz, primate of the Anglican Church of Canada, described the report as “good,” and said it “accurately reflected what they’d see and heard.”
So if 'we sensed' really had meant 'they pulled it out of their asses', surely Fred Hiltz would have called them on it? Since he did not, I assume that they really were accurately reflecting what they had heard from our HoB.
Tobias also said, but then again, English bishops are appointed, not elected, so their pastoral skills often Bite the Big One.
This would apply to Colin Bennetts but not Chad Gandiya (see original article).
The bits of the article that Mimi didn't quote were also quite instructive. I note especially the following:
The visitors noted that many bishops they met had “an infectious enthusiasm for the Gospel and the Kingdom, such that we could not but feel that their dioceses also must reflect that same spiritual vitality.” They said they were “very encouraged” by the general desire that the church be more mission-focused. “The acknowledgment of numerical decline was matched by a very positive approach to church growth, a strong commitment to ministry among indigenous people and a determination to deliver better, more integrated forms of theological education both for ordinands and for laity.”
If Canadian Anglicans can find a way to break through the impasse over sexuality “it could well become a vibrant model of the kind of renewed Christian community that has much to teach the wider church,” they said.
Amen.
Tim,
ReplyDeletehow is that materially different from the reality lived in TEC?
I don't actually understand any of this any longer.
Anti American sentiment can be used to stoke the flames but there has to be a reason for lighting the fire in the first place.
If that reason was genuinely homosexuality it should apply to Canada at least as much.
Citing credal unbelief and probably meaning one single man, Jack Spong, is laughable although it may help to score a few points in the PR war.
But I genuinely no longer understand what this is actually all about.
"This would apply to Colin Bennetts but not Chad Gandiya." What would apply to Chad Gandiya, I wonder? You'd think he'd have his plate full with the situation in Harare, without globetrotting, ferreting out motes in the eyes of others. Was this appointment a ploy of Rowan's to get him out of harm's way? If so, seems there could be one African minority - Anglican bishops - he'll go out of his way to protect.
ReplyDeleteps I smell a calculated attempt to drive a wedge between the Canadian & US churches. Might make the GAFCON/ACNA agenda a little more achievable?
ReplyDeleteTim---if that's true, then the Canadian bishops ought to be ashamed of themselves.
ReplyDeletePlease explain to me why blessing same sex unions is okay for Canadians but not Americans? Because y'all have the "right attitude" about it?!
And Canadian numbers are down (as are everyone else's), but that's okay because they have an "infectious enthusiasm for the Gospel and the Kingdom"?!
I'd invite you down here in the Diocese of North Carolina to experience OUR enthusiasm for the Gospel---oh, and to note that we still say the Nicene Creed at every Eucharist.
And since when is it ever appropriate to make window's into other bishops' souls--particularly bishops who aren't there to defend themselves?
I could just as easily tar the Church of England by quoting +Graham Dow as you could by quoting +Spong. What is being done here is slander, pure and simple--and there ain't NOTHING Gospel about that.
Lapin is right and so is Erika. We have entered Bizarroland where one Province can go even farther in recognizing same-sex unions than TEC has, but still get a pat on the head---simply because they aren't us. Shameful.
Doxy
Oh my! What a lively comment thread. I should stay away from my computer more often.
ReplyDelete---if that's true, then the Canadian bishops ought to be ashamed of themselves.
Yes. If the Canadians point a finger, then three fingers point back at them. I'd like to know which Canadian bishop or bishops said Canadians "“genuinely value and seek to live with diversity”, implying that we here in the US don't value diversity. We all know elementary geography, that Canada is not the US.
Erika, I line up with Lapin and Adrian. This is a tactic by the representatives of the ABC and perhaps certain bishops in the ACC in collusion with them to divide and conquer, and it's ugly. Some folks seem not to be able to grasp that a member of the Episcopal Church can be both progressive and orthodox, and that vincible ignorance infuriates me.
There's no way you can paint a pretty picture from this scene, and if the ABC's views differ from those of his reps, then he should speak up, because the buck stops with him.
Mimi
ReplyDeleteif you're right, then it's only the beginning, and nothing but a nasty long term tactical game. Once they're rid of TEC they'll turn on... who knows, Canada?... then Wales.....and bit by bit they'll weed the Communion clean.
I stand corrected - guess I did not think the Canadian bishops would put down their colleagues in TEC in order to make themselves look better. I hope they come visit the TEC (all of it not just the US) and find that their myths about us are untrue. Part of this is that TEC is much much larger and encompasses many more cultures -- from Province IX to Taiwan and including the many areas of the US - the church going South to the home of the "none-church" in the Pacific NW. I find this part of the report very discouraging - I hope we get to read the whole thing and find some good news and care for the whole community - not just building up one to tear down another.
ReplyDeleteI am not endorsing what the members of our HoB said - simply pointing out that it was they who said it, not Colin Bennetts and Chad Gandiya. If there is blame here, it needs to be assigned accurately.
ReplyDeleteErika asked:
how is that materially different from the reality lived in TEC?
Since I've never visited the US I really can't comment on that. Once again, I'm not stating my opinions, just pointing out the actual source of the opinions quoted.
Doxy said:
I could just as easily tar the Church of England by quoting +Graham Dow as you could by quoting +Spong.
I don't believe I actually have quoted Bishop Spong.
Erika, I think this instance is not the beginning. I'd like to think differently, but it seems to me to be that the latest bashing is part of a strategy that was planned some time ago by the Archbishop of Canterbury and others in the Anglican Communion to divide and conquer - to isolate the Episcopal Church. I'm sorry if the ACofC has decided to play along.
ReplyDeleteTim--you didn't. I was really responding to Erika's comment about +Spong but it got conflated in my reply to you as I was editing. Sorry for the confusion.
ReplyDeletePax,
Doxy
Let me also add that this is a perfect example of Girardian scapegoating: or as it happens in the tea-shop or schoolyard, "dissing" an absent party to bolster one's own relationship with one present. I would say to the Canadian's who slandered TEC, "Excuse me, but you've something on your nose..."
ReplyDelete[The word verification is "facks" -- hmmm...]
Doxy
ReplyDeleteI hadn't thought you'd quoted Spong. It's a general thing, it annoys me how people quote Spong and only ever Spong, when they want to hit TEC over the head. Even if he was a loony outsider, which I don't happen to think he is, he still would not be representative of TEC.
Tim,
I had interpreted you Amen at the end of your post as agreement with what you were quoting.
Mimi
But if that's the game, then TEC can only be the first of many churches who will find themselves in the firing line, one after the other.
...it annoys me how people quote Spong and only ever Spong, when they want to hit TEC over the head.
ReplyDeleteIt annoys me, too, Erika. You'd think Spong was the only bishop in TEC for all the times his name is mentioned.
We'll see what the other churches do.
Used to be Bishop Pike -- but I guess he has been dead long enough for people to think that won't work any more. He preached at our baccalaureate (public HS!) and I was excited that the church offered such a person.
ReplyDeleteAnd you'd think he was still a bishop with jurisdiction---although he's been retired since 2000.
ReplyDeleteI note that +Spong's U.S speaking schedule includes exactly ONE Episcopal Church since August 2009. He's not exactly a rock star in his own denomination--he's playing to new audiences now.
And that's great! I have a great deal of admiration for him, even if I find his theology unsatisfying.
Doxy
Erika, I see the confusion and my apologies for that. The 'amen' was to the last bit I quoted, not everything in the article.
ReplyDelete