From Reuter's:
The leader of the Catholics in England in Wales rejected accusations that Pope Benedict was fishing for converts and said "delicate and difficult" issues existed between his church and the Anglican Communion.That's about right, Abp. Nichols. As my correspondent who sent me the link said:
His comments come two weeks before Pope Benedict's four-day trip to England and Scotland, the first papal visit since John Paul II's pastoral visit in 1982 and the first-ever official papal visit to Britain.
Relations between the two churches have been tense since the pope offered disaffected Anglicans opposed to their church's ordination of women and homosexual bishops the chance to convert to Rome while keeping some of their traditions.
"There are delicate, difficult issues between our two churches at the moment," Archbishop of Westminster Vincent Nichols, head of the 5.2 million Catholics in England and Wales, told Reuters.(My emphasis)
[N]ot fishing? It's that "ordinariate" bait bucket that gives him away.That's about right, too.
Many Anglicans believe Williams was humiliated by last October's offer, which was made with little advance warning, while some Catholics are unhappy at the terms of the offer, which would allow married Anglican priests to convert.For heaven's sake, why don't the folks contemplating departure to one of the ordinariates just convert to the Roman Catholic Church? They may call themselves Anglicans, but they will be Roman Catholic converts. The powers in the RC Church can change the rules any time down the road, and if the "Anglicans" in the ordinariates don't like the changes, what will they do?
....
It is not clear how many intend to convert, he said. The lack of financial provision is likely to be a stumbling block, but in July the traditionalist Anglican Bishop of Fulham, John Broadhurst, suggested several hundred clergy and many laity would leave in the next three years.(My emphasis)
Meanwhile, he said the cost of the pope's visit between September 16-19 was likely to rise above 9 million pounds ($13.92 million) -- higher than the initial estimate of 7 million pounds.The cost is scandalous. What is the justification for such a high price? There is none. The powers in the English government should have nipped the plan for the pope's visit in the bud or required the Vatican to reimburse the taxpayers' money.
The state's share of the bill is likely to rise by 50 percent to 12 million pounds.
Thanks to Ann V. for the link.
". . .disaffected Anglicans opposed to their church's ordination of women and homosexual bishops. . ." Not to be too snippy, but I was under the impression that it'ssome of the homosexual bishops that are most opposed to women priests and bishops alike. Well, that is pretty snippy.
ReplyDeleteLiving in a country that has an established religion that is not Roman Catholicism seems to me to be a very good reason to protest the cost and for the RC to have to pay for this trip.
Susan, are you referring to the homosexualist Bishops in the Church of England, or the Church of Rome?
ReplyDeleteAnd, of course, the Pope is opposed to the ordination of any Anglican priests and bishops in the first place, regarding their orders as null and void; in these present times full of sound and fury, but signifying nothing.
ReplyDelete))))Yawn(((((. Talk about the widening gyre...
I still don't understand why it will cost so much. How on earth does the Pope manage to be so expensive? You and I aren't that expensive when we travel round the UK, Mimi.
ReplyDeleteI was only referring to Anglican bishops, Wade. I can not pontificate on RC bishops and their proclivities.
ReplyDeleteYeats for every occasion!
ReplyDeleteCathy, you and I don't require police for security, and no one thought us important enough to demonstrate against us - or even to come out in crowds to see us. I waited, but the crowds never came.
I can not pontificate on RC bishops and their proclivities.
Susan, I believe that it's common knowledge that the RCC has its share of bishops with proclivities.
Only one question about your trip, Mimi. It might explain why it costs so much for the Pope. . .
ReplyDeleteIs MadPriest as delicious looking as the pope's Georg? There probably has to be more protection for Georg than Benny. . .
No one thought us important enough to demonstrate against us
ReplyDeleteDammit, that's just insulting.
We're going to have to put in more effort next time so there's no mistake.
Is MadPriest as delicious looking as the pope's Georg?
ReplyDeleteActually I detect a slight resemblance between the Mad One and Bel Georgio, but it's not more than passing, though (I'll whisper this rather quietly) if the Mad One slimmed down a little I think it would become more marked.
Is MadPriest as delicious looking as the pope's Georg?
ReplyDeleteWith his Scottish suntan, MadChauffeur was pretty foxy, but comparisons are odious.
I'd have stood by the side of the road to wave as you passed, ladies.
ReplyDeleteWouldn't bother to open the curtains to see Ratso pass by, though. What a colossal waste.
Susan S, I think that was Mimi's way of saying she don't necessarily agree with me.
ReplyDeleteThank you Paul!! You have your priorities right, if I may say so.
ReplyDeletePaul my sweet, I know you woulda if you coulda.
ReplyDeleteCathy, I never disagree with you.
Thank you, Mimo.
ReplyDelete"...if the "Anglicans" in the ordinariates don't like the changes, what will they do?" They'll spend another 20 years whining about rejoining the C of E...with a laundry list of demands and conditions that will make them feel oh so special.
ReplyDeleteBex, bingo! The truth is that those types are never satisfied. "The grass is greener...." was coined for them.
ReplyDeleteI thought Dr. Johnson said "Comparisons are invidious...'
ReplyDeleteBut I know he was referring to Scotland at the time.
Meanwhile I notice that some government math is at work. The visit will cost 9 million quid, of which the government will be paying 12 million...
Kishnevi, perhaps Dr Johnson spoke as you say, but check this out.
ReplyDeleteI can't make sense out of the math as stated in the article, either, except that it's a lot of money.
... Now that the Mad One has posted his pic on OCICBW, I can say I think the resemblance is round the hairline and eyes, and in the colouring. But it's not that apparent in the pic the Mad One has chosen as his debut. I would not blame Susan S for disagreeing.
ReplyDeleteCathy, no more hints and speculation are necessary. MadChauffeur is out there now. We no longer have secret knowledge, and thus we have lost our power. I'm feeling weak already.
ReplyDeleteThat's a great picture of MP, but what is that sculpture that should be used to advertise "The Vagina Monologues" all about?(I was going to ask that question on OCICBW, but thought it was a little much and I might have been banned for at least a day!
ReplyDeleteVW=spingoni, perhaps a new kind of pasta? or following on my question above, a new brand of female contraception device. . .
As an official church photographer I think I should go along and document your next trip!
ReplyDeleteWe no longer have secret knowledge, and thus we have lost our power.
ReplyDeleteOoo, I don't think that's true at all, Mimi.
Whiteycat - I think you definitely should!!!
ReplyDeleteAlso Mimi - I wasn't dropping hints or speculating - what I was saying about Georgio above was directly in relation to the fact that Mad Priest had posted his photo, meaning that people would be able to compare.
ReplyDeleteSusan, I have no idea about the sculpture that should be used to advertise "The Vagina Monologues". I'm afraid you will need to consult a higher authority. I expect that the discussion here could get us all banned.
ReplyDeleteWhiteycat, you're hired!
Cathy, I was only joking about "secret knowledge", in that we knew what MadChauffeur looked like, and others did not - until now.
Susan, hang on. Look what I found.
ReplyDeleteSurprised that that hasn't been defaced or otherwise abused, Mimi.
ReplyDeleteTrue, Lapin.
ReplyDeleteMimi, the Dr. Johnson version is this:
ReplyDeleteJohnson was once denigrating the use of oatmeal as a (human) food. It was pointed out to him that oatmeal was eaten by the Scots, so it couldn't be that bad. To which he replied, "Comparisons are invidious, but horses also eat oats."
Probably linked to the definition of oats used in his Dictionary: "A food eaten by humans in Scotland and by horses everywhere else."
Kishnevi, it wasn't that I didn't believe that Dr Johnson said the words as you quoted them, but the version that I've heard forever has "odious" instead of "invidious".
ReplyDeleteI didn't have oatmeal in Scotland, but I like oatmeal anyway. The seafood in NW Scotland was to die for. I'll probably write about it.
Just a wee point, but it should not be forgotten that this is not just about churchy things. He is also a head of state and is thereby afforded such luxury and security as any other visiting head of state. compared to other state visits this one is actually relatively cheap for the taxpayer, moreso because the Catholic church will be picking up a (small)percentage of the bill.
ReplyDeleteThat said, yes, I would rather it was not happening.
TheMe, I thought about the pope's being a head of state, too, but I wanted to vent, and I didn't let facts get in the way of what I wanted to say. ;-)
ReplyDelete