From Nicholas Knisely at The Lead:
The Rev. Dan Martins was elected the 11th Bishop of the Diocese of Springfield this afternoon on the third ballot. Martins led in all three ballots in the clergy, and was nearly elected on the second ballot when lay supporters of Canon Mark Stevenson appear to have shifted their support to Martins. Martins' election, as are all elections, dependent on the successful completion of the consents process.
Ballot results from the diocesan website.
Click on the image for the larger view.
From the State Journal-Register:
“There is a process, which is in our constitution and canon, that he now goes through the consent process,” said the Rev. Christopher Ashmore, rector of Trinity Church in Jacksonville.
The process calls for a majority of U.S. bishops and Standing Committees to consent to the vote during a 120-day period following Martins’ election, Ashmore said.
Martins may have difficulty getting consent if he sticks with his conservative views on same-sex unions and gay clergy.
Ashmore said there was an overarching feeling of doing God’s work within the Cathedral Church of St. Paul, 815 S. Second St., where the election took place.
From Ann Fontaine also at The Lead:
Martins voted with the majority in San Joaquin who left the Episcopal Church when he was Rector in that diocese, says he is not planning to leave the Episcopal Church.
....
Martins has been affiliated with Communion Partners, who support the Covenant.
James at The Three-Legged Stool appears to take a dim view of the result.
The Rev. Martins would not have been my choice, but he is the choice of the representatives of the diocese, and the process now moves on to consents from the bishops and Standing Committees of the Episcopal Church. In my opinion, that the proper number of the delegates in the Diocese of Springfield chose the Rev. Martins as their bishop carries great weight with respect to consideration of consents. That the Rev. Martins voted with the majority to leave the Episcopal Church in San Joachin is cause for concern.
Pray for the bishops and Standing Committees.
UPDATE: Jim Naughton at The Lead comments on a statement by the Rev. Martins at GC09.
UPDATE 2: John Chilton at The Lead posts links to further information on Fr. Dan Martins and consents.
UPDATE 3: Bishop-elect Dan Martins offers a detailed response to his critics at his blog.
The Rev. Martins voted with the majority to leave the Episcopal Church in San Joachin is cause for concern.¨ James
ReplyDeleteNot to worry, it´s always about the importance of being important with this guy...never takes himself out of the spotlight for a second, never takes responsibility for his behind-the-scene real acts of exclusion in San Joaquin or Northern Indiana...loves church politics. Denying the reality of full Episcopal Church participation for ALL qualified clergy is sick and sad no matter how ¨moral¨ one thinks one is.
Meanwhile, Springfield has offered up another platform for another proven/notorious grandstander to act-out and prance upon.
I hope to be wrong.
Leo, the words you attribute to James are mine. I did not quote James. My words are rather mild compared to James'.
ReplyDeleteNot another Mark Lawrence, please! I hope that Dan Martins will be loyal to the Episcopal Church, if he receives consents and is consecrated a bishop.
You made me wonder for a second, too, Mimi - I thought, "I don't remember saying that!"
ReplyDeleteHowever, I do take a very dim view of this development. It is no different than electing the fox to guard the hen house - There will be problems.
Martins voted once to steal church property. He has given us no cause to believe he's repented.
Leo and James, whatever words are not in quotes or italics in my posts are mine. Also, I usually indent quotes if they are of any length. Sorry about the confusion.
ReplyDeleteJames, as to Martins, I have my doubts. We shall see if he gets sufficient consents. I rather expect that he will. Then we'll see what kind of bishop he will be.
I hope Mark Harris is correct in his assessment. I also hope TEC keeps a careful eye on any changes to the diocesan C&C. I don't trust Martins at all. Nevertheless he is their choice and they may prosper under his leadership. I think he should receive the consents. And we should watch...
ReplyDeleteI think he should receive the consents. And we should watch...
ReplyDeletePiskie, I think that's about right.
I don't know. One wants to expect we're all playing "Mister Nice Guy" around here but in reality the stakes are much higher. I don't have a vote in the consent process but I would be hard-pressed to consent given the fact that we're confronting people who are dead set at destroying the Episcopal Church. Pure and simple. And I'm not sure this bird isn't of that stripe. Fool me once with Lawrence, but not again. For what it's worth!
ReplyDeleteBruce, if we are to be the inclusive church we claim to be, are we not perhaps called to make room even for those who may want to destroy us?
ReplyDeleteIt was a valid election and as far as we know they followed the constitution and canons to the letter. So, consents from standing committees should be cut and dried "yes."
ReplyDeleteHowever, bishops have few personal perks and consents are one of them - they vote their conscious. Those bishops who have the right of consent should take a long hard look at Martins' record and act accordingly. But then, I'm not a bishop so my opinion matter not and naught.
Why does one vote with the majority for a diocese to "pull out", but then stays in TEC? Not sure I understand and tend to see it as a bit hypocritical actually. Can someone help me out here?
ReplyDeleteDon, I'm afraid I can't answer your question about the reason for Martins' voting to leave and later changing his mind. Perhaps others can shed more light
ReplyDeleteWell, alls I can say for sure is something my mother used to note about such photos:
ReplyDelete"Smarmy lookin' bastard, ain't he?"
Mimi--I started writing and couldn't stop. So I turned my comment into my first blog post in 3+ months.
ReplyDeleteYou have only yourself to blame... ;-)
Pax,
Doxy
Mark!
ReplyDeleteDoxy, it's great to have you writing again. I'll go read and leave a word. I blame myself, but I confess that I'm a little disappointed that you didn't clutter up my comments. Still, your words call for a more prominent outlet than the comment section.
Mark,
ReplyDeleteexactly my initial reaction. However, Mimi has come to expect such rash statements from me. ;-)
Johnieb! You two! ;-)
ReplyDeleteI know this fellow well from his Blog posts and the places not to be named. I didn't recongise the photo at all!
ReplyDeleteI fear this will be an other Lawrence story.
I fear this will be an other Lawrence story.
ReplyDeleteGöran, I pray not.
I've been a member of St. Anne's for nearly 20 years. Never have I seen such a close minded, condescending priest as the bishop elect. A great many of us are glad to see him go, but he should step down, not up.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous, I'm sorry to hear what you say, although I welcome commentary from someone who knows Fr Martins well. Of the three finalists, he would have been my last choice. I still go back and forth about his consents, and I can't say for sure what I would do if I had a say.
ReplyDeleteI invite you to visit and comment again, but I ask you to make up a name and sign your post next time.
I don't really plan on continuing on with negative comments about Dan Martins. I just wanted to let others know that many people from our parish contacted our bishop with concerns about Dan Martins shortly after his arrival. He simply was not a good fit at St. Anne's...but I don't think it was us :) (former anonymous)
ReplyDeleteHi bisectional vocalist, thanks for giving a name. You are not the only person with concerns about Dan Martins. If you read the other comments in this one thread, you see that others have grave doubts about him.
ReplyDeleteThat the people in the diocese chose Martins carries great weight with me. Martins and I disagree on many issues, but the election was conducted properly, and he is the choice. We'll wait to see whether Martins gets consents. I pray that if he does, he will be a more loyal bishop than he has, in his past, been a priest of the church.
Okay, I will have to leave one more comment...or two. To Don2202002: Dan Martins is Anglican, through and through. He would never leave TEC because he would risk being 'kicked out' of the Anglican Communion and the Anglican Church is the closest thing to being Catholic as he can get...being married and all. I'm not kidding. The Catholic Church is the one true church (not my opinion) and he strives to be united with it.
ReplyDeleteAnd to Grandmere Mimi: If Dan Martins has not been a loyal and loving priest then why would he be a loyal and loving Bishop? I struggle greatly with the idea that I'm glad to be rid of him, but he should not be assuming more responsibility when he 'failed' to fulfill his duties as a priest.
BV, leave as many comments as you like. You answered Don's question. Too bad the pope didn't offer ordinariates here in the US.
ReplyDelete...why would he be a loyal and loving Bishop?
My expectations of Martins are not high, but the electors in Springfield knew what he was, and they elected him. Some of those who voted for Martins included more progressive leaning Episcopalians. I don't understand their thinking nor their vote, and the people in the diocese will have to life with that choice, if Martins get consents. I wish the vote had gone another way.
Hope springs eternal?
The progressive leaning Episcopalians are going to be very disappointed. Dan Martins is not a 'uniter' as he claims. He came into our parish and one by one eliminated our traditions. He would 'listen' with glazed over eyes and then ask us to tell our friends that his door is open. But, all of our concerns feel on deaf ears. Our bishop knew of the problem shortly after Dan arrived and a promotion is the answer? That is what just might bother me the most.
ReplyDeleteBV, I suggest that you express your concerns about Martins to the members of your diocesan Standing Committee and your bishop.
ReplyDeleteLook, it bothers me, too, that Dan Martins may get a promotion. Don't count me amongst the unconcerned.
Dan Martins is on the standing committee. And, our bishop has been aware of all of the issues for probably two years now, so I don't have much hope that contacting this group would result in...well...anything. Guess I'll just have to keep getting the word out and see where that leads.
ReplyDeleteBV, Dan will not have a vote on the SC, will he?
ReplyDeleteI encourage you to get your word out to as many people as you can. In our diocesan election, there were a number of us working to spread the word about Bp. Michael Smith's position on the brink, and, in our case, he was not elected. He did come in second, which was a little scary.
As a long-time member of St Anne's Warsaw, I'm tired of people continuing to bash Fr Dan. Our parish has been known as a parish that was accepting of people who are considered conservative or liberal and everything between. Now we have a faction who continue to write letters and play out anger over the internet. They claim to be representing inclusivity (as long as those who are included aren't conservative). These people claim people have left the church due to Fr Dan. The truth is even though some have left due to Fr Dan, just as many have left due to these people continuing to stir up people. Springfield is fortunate to be getting him. He will be an excellent resource for the clergy and laypeople. It's our loss.
ReplyDeleteSilent, thanks for your comment It's good to hear from people who know the bishop-elect well.
ReplyDeleteSpringfield is fortunate to be getting him.
I pray that turns out to be true.
Dear Silent, I'm one who likely is included in the "faction" you describe, I'm disillusioned with the parish, but I've not posted on this blog previously. I, like you, am a long-time member of St Anne's (20 years or so). Please understand that "bashing" is not my intention. I do not wish bad things for Fr Dan, however, I do have concerns about the "skill set" that he would bring to the role of Bishop, and have spoken with our Bishop about this. My opinions are based on my own interactions with Fr Dan over the years. Not all have been bad, but some have. I'm glad that your interactions have been better. For me, this is more about "full disclosure" to Springfield. I suspect that they don't really know who they're getting. We didn't...or we did, and we called him anyway?!? (that last bit is about personality traits, not ideology)
ReplyDeleteMy problems, too, stem from Dan Martins' interactions with others. I have, and get along with, conservative friends. The point is that as a priest/bishop if your opinions are so 'far right' or 'far left' then maybe it would be best to temper your statements a bit so as not to alienate others in your congregation. He does not do that...and if he claims to then I'd hate to hear what he really thinks! Priests and Bishops are there for the entire flock. I sure didn't feel that with Dan Martins. There may be a small faction of people who are concerned and are vocal, but there are so many others who will just keep quiet and wait for his departure.
ReplyDeleteMicro Cube Guy, again, I welcome you as a person who knows Fr Dan well. One person's assignment of a another to a faction is another's sense of his/her position as a loyal member of the congregation.
ReplyDeleteI expect that Fr Dan's ideology was pretty well-known by the voters in the Diocese of Springfield. As to his manner of interacting with members of his parish with different views from his, perhaps not.
You did right in speaking to your bishop.
Thanks for the note, Grandmere…
ReplyDeleteA question for “Silent”… as one who has worked very hard to NOT leave for the last three years or so (but kind of has now – the timing is ironic, isn’t it), please explain to me the premise that some people have left because of agitators (“…have left due to these people continuing to stir up people.”). I’m honestly missing that connection. Are these people fans of Fr Dan, or the opposite? If fans, wouldn’t the “stirring” just build solidarity, more resolution to stay? If not fans, wouldn’t the root cause for the leaving then be Fr Dan, not the “stirring”? If it’s the latter (my guess), and the ones leaving tend to be of one particular ideological stripe, what does that say about the ability to shepherd all of the sheep. …which then leads me back to my “skill set” comment above.
Silent-
ReplyDeleteI too disagree that people have left due to those in opposition to Dan Martins. And I do not even think that the problem is Martins' conservatism. A priest can be theologically liberal or conservative, and still consider the needs and wants, traditions and livelihood of the parish above his/her own (therefore allowing for inclusivity without effectively "going back on" their own beliefs). That is what Martins has never done, and that is why he has failed Saint Annes.
I grew up in that church, I only left because I hopped the pond (and Warsaw was never exactly my idea of paradise). I know that people had problems with all the previous rectors that I encountered during my decade or so as a Saint Anne's parishioner. The difference was that when complaints were raised with previous rectors, efforts were made on their part to listen to such concerns, and to take to heart what was said. Efforts were made to change, or at least to understand how others felt.
It is harsh to say, but from observing others over the last few years (and from my own attempt to "wake up" Dan, as it were, to his shortcomings) I state with absolute confidence (and sadness) that he is incapable of recognizing his own mistakes. And is therefore in no position to lead others.
By the grace of God he might change and gain humility in his next position and I pray all the best for Springfield. But please, "Silent," do not blame concerned parishioners for problems that are obviously directy linked to the leadership.
I too have been a member of St. Anne's for 20 + years and I have worked for many of the priests over the course of the last 15 of those years. We went from being an extremely traditional parish to being a more contemporary worship style during our 3rd Rector's time here. When Father Dan began making slight changes, what he was doing was bringing tradition back into our worship. This was the tradition that I fell in love with when I first began coming to St. Anne's. Musically, we still do contemporary music but it's music that is singable and at a volume that doesn't offend. Father Dan could have stopped our contemporary music from being sung/played but didn't. Life is all about compromise and I can truly say that he does!
ReplyDeleteI truly don't see the Father Dan Martins that you describe. Being a Rector of a parish is a huge responsibility! You are responsible for everything that goes on, everything that doesn't go on and everything in between.
Father Dan has been an incredible boss, a very compassionate priest, and a blessed friend.(I've had a crazy things going on in my life over the past 3 years, he has been a great listening ear and the best thing about him is that he doesn't try to fix my problems but listens and guides, with compassion.)
I also appreciate the fact that he holds a position on many of the Diocesan Boards and Committees. Father Dan has worked very hard to know and understand the politics of the church and that's the type of person that should be on those committees. Do we want someone who doesn't know what's going on to be our leader. I don't think so!
I love all of the people of St. Anne's, those who are conservative, liberal, traditional and contemporary. Father Dan also loves all of those people regardless of any hurtful words.
It truly breaks my heart to read the things that Christians write about someone who God has called to serve not only as our priest at St. Anne's but as the next Bishop of Springfield, IL.
I'm proud to call him my priest!
With Love,
Songbird
I usually try to respond to the folks who leave comments, but, as you see, since some of you know Fr Dan, I'm letting the discussion move forward amongst you without saying much.
ReplyDeleteI don't want to keep bickering back and forth on your blog, Grandmere, but I do want to say two more things.
ReplyDeleteSilent no more: Please, if you wish to refer to my comments as bashing then do the same with your priest's blog entries. He continues to insult our presiding bishop and all the liberal leaders of TEC...publicly.
Songbird: Just because you have not seen 'that side' of Dan Martins doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
Of course, St. Anne's, Warsaw, which had been in decline, grew about 40% during Fr. Martins three years, while the diocese as a whole shrunk 19% during 2003-2008. That tells me that no matter how critical two liberals are, the ministry was well received.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous, I expect that you're not the Anonymous who posted previously without signing a name. That's the problem with anonymous posters. It's sometimes hard to know one from another. Next time you post here, please sign a name, any name, make up a name. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteI hope I might offer here a word of comfort: that joy & peace are there for us when we realize that being in Christ frees us from the burden of relying on our own opinions. We can trust God's work, even - or most especially - if it seems He is not agreeing with us.
ReplyDeleteWe know imperfectly...we don't hear the pastoral conversations with those who are hurting...we don't read the 'thoughtful' (to quote someone who had opposed Fr. Dan) emails from him to any who have questions...the deluge of recent greetings from those whose lives he has touched.
Those whose immediate lives were wrapped up in the election of a Bishop in Springfield prayed fervently for the will of God to be done -- as did many holy intercessors around the country. A rich, holy work was done and there is now much work to be embraced.
I will be meeting and speaking with the clergy spouses of that diocese in a few days. I will ask them to continue that prayer - specifically now for the person that will be their beloved bishop, though I know they do already. I challenge you to pray the sign of the cross on this man, even or especially if you have opposed him. I pledge to do the same for you - though I do not know MicroCube's true name(email me?)
Lay your burdens down.
We are all wounded and imperfect. Let us Praise the Name of the Lord who loves and sees all things clearly.
Brenda Martins
I will continue to ask those of you who support the elevation of Fr. Martins to the episcopate:
ReplyDeleteDoes it not concern you that this man has actively participated in schismatic behavior in the past?
Does it not concern you that he described TEC as a "sinking ship" and stated publicly that removing a diocese from TEC might be a reasonable action?
No bishop is going to be universally "popular." My concern is that any person elevated to the episcopate in this church be loyal to it, obedient to hir ordination vows, and willing to abide by the constitution and canons of TEC. The available evidence on Fr. Martins suggests that he has not met those criteria in the past and that he may well not meet them in the future.
We do not need any more +Mark Lawrences.
Doxy
Doxy, your concerns are my concerns. We don't need another Mark Lawrence. Bp. Lawrence's behavior has been disgraceful and disloyal.
ReplyDeleteTo me, it is truly not a question of whether a person is a traditionalist or a progressive, but whether the person is loyal to the church in which she/he is ordained and speaks the following words at the time of ordination:
I do solemnly engage to conform to the doctrine, discipline, and worship of the Episcopal Church.
That, and will the bishop pastor the entire flock under his/her care?
awwwww geeze...just when I was gonna have a nice cup of coffee someone had to post "Of course, St. Anne's, Warsaw, which had been in decline, grew about 40% during Fr. Martins three years"
ReplyDeleteNow, I'm going to assume that we are not talking about a growth in financial contributions. We all know that is not the case. St. Anne's is worse off financially than ever before and I wouldn't blame the economy on that one. There are many well off families at St. Anne's who are choosing to contribute to other causes at this point.
So, to me a statement of growth implies that St. Anne's has retained prior members and added an additional 40%. I'm pretty sure that is not the case either. I find it hard to believe that...what...about 30 new families have been received into the church in the past three years? Nope. So, let's go with this scenerio. Average attendance at the 10:15 service declined sharply with Dan's arrival, let's say to 40 people. And, then maybe when the assistant arrived it increased to, let's say, 56 people. That would be a 40% increase in attendance. That's not growth. It is a snapshot in time and does not accurately reflect what is happening. And, at the risk of being confrontational, if attendance is starting to come back now, it may be because people see an end to the problems and are hoping for a better future for St. Anne's.
I personally found Father Dan a diamond in the rough. Granted it took me a few months to get to know the real Dan, my fault not his, once I did I found a diamond. I found a man that helped me grow spiritually. Father Dan taught me how to see Jesus’ face in others. He taught me how to find Jesus in the Eucharist. Springfield will be blessed to have him as their Bishop and I will truly miss him and his teachings. The Episcopal Church is in turmoil and to find a person that sticks to their beliefs, no matter which side of the fence they are on is rare
ReplyDeleteI have known Dan for a very long time. A very, very long time. He is a very honest person with his feelings and he doesn't say one thing and do another. I do not think you can judge him without having been there with him. Parishes change over time and people can get upset over things beyond the rector's control. So I don't think this muckraking serves any good purpose. Dan has been a very devoted follower of Christ, that is what is important. As for the state of the church in general, it is chaotic now and it always will be. It is far too political to not be. My life is so much richer for knowing him and yours would be as well. I don't agree with everything he says. I don't agree with everything the church does. And I certainly don't care for the negativity. If you are concerned, pray about it. You might be surprised at the results.
ReplyDeleteSo I don't think this muckraking serves any good purpose.
ReplyDeleteIt is not "muckraking" to ask serious questions about the ACTIONS and intentions of a man who wants to be a bishop in The Episcopal Church.
Neither is it muckraking to read his actual words--"printed" on the Internet for all to see.
I'm sure he is a wonderful priest to some and not-so-wonderful to others. That's life and human nature. My concern is whether he is fit to be a bishop in our church.
Doxy
I added an update to my post with further information from The Lead.
ReplyDeletehttp://cariocaconfessions.blogspot.com/2010/11/welcome-word.html
ReplyDeleteApparently 815's operatives in the Dio. of Springfield can live with - and are asking for - consents for Bishop-elect Martins. But the self-reverential spin by 'CLSD' is certainly no surprise to the rest of the diocese.
Anonymous, please make up a name if you visit again. Thanks for your link.
ReplyDeleteThe following quote is from one of Dan's blog entries, just after General Convention 2009. To me, it says that he is not willing to stand by and work with TEC, but rather is seeking an opportunity to align himself with the Anglican Communion in order to avoid unpleasant consequences of our church's actions. You're either in or you're out. You take the good with the bad and work within the institution. He continued to work with the communion partners for the years he was at our parish and I doubt that he has 'given up'.
ReplyDelete"Communion Partners Bishops (full-disclosure: my bishop is one) and Communion Partners Rectors (full-disclosure: I am one) is a still fairly loose coalition of bishops and clergy whose discerned call is to remain in fellowship with the Episcopal Church but to clearly differentiate themselves from its institutional leadership, such that, in the event that TEC is placed on "associate" status within the Anglican Communion, they will have an umbrella under which they can gather to escape whatever sanctions are imposed and remain in unhindered communion with the See of Canterbury"
Fr. Martins' writings strongly imply that he does not see himself first as an Episcopalian, but rather an Anglican. In addition to the blog entry (above), one need only see his self-description (also on his blog) as an "Anglican priest." For one who claims to be precise in his use of language, this description, in the context of his other writing, is very telling. His loyalty is to the "See of Canterbury," which he appears to invest with some special authority. This is not in keeping with the tradition of the Anglican Communion. If the AOC had had this authority, there would have been little need for the Lambeth Quadritlateral. Perhaps Fr. Martins would be more comfortable in the Church of England. If so, he should move there and seek to be licensed in a diocese of that province.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous, please make up a name and sign your comment if you visit again, so that we will not confuse one Anonymous with another. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteAmen to Anonymous 11/18. Fr. Martins indeed prides himself in his precise use of language/words, both verbal and written. The closer he can be to Rome the happier he will be but not at the price of denying the validity of his priesthood in the Episcopal church.
ReplyDeleteI know this blog has not been commented on recently, however I would like to speak on the matter. I was referred to this blog a while back and I did not at that time see anything to argue to. It wasn't until I just now read all of what was written that I felt the need to write.
ReplyDeleteTo those who stood up for Fr. Dan, kudos. However, to those who bashed him and took personal stabs to him I can't believe how ridiculous that is. I do not know a man who is more in touch with what it means to be a Christian. I mean, isn't that first and foremost what we are called to be? Yes, Fr. Dan is very much a part of the Anglican Church. He is also very much a part of the Episcopal church.
When he started here we did have a major decline in attendance when you look at it on paper. This was due to the fact that several families moved prior to him coming due to reasons of being closer to family, changes in jobs and such. So to look at the attendance and see the growth as a snap shot is a fair representation.
Fr. Dan has a heart of Gold and would bend over backwards for anyone. Once again, I just read all of the comments, so I might refer to comments that were written months ago. To say that Fr. Dan gets a glazed look in his eye when you talk to him is false beyond belief. Whenever I have talked to him I've seen a sparkle in his eye and I know that what I'm saying to him is being taken in and processed.
I would also like to add a trivia fact about Fr. Dan. He collects prayer books and hymnals. As I'm sure all of you know by know, Fr. Dan has in fact gotten the needed votes and will in fact be the next Bishop of Springfield. I was helping him to pack his office at St. Anne's and we were coming across some of the books on his bookshelf. He has more religious reference books than I even knew were published. I have never met a man that knows so much about our church and what it is we believe in.
To slander this man's name is a shame. I am also very offended by the comment left saying he's "a smarmy looking bastard" He loves unconditionally. So to anyone else who would like to retort and question what I am saying, or argue on any of these facts feel free to email me. I will defend this man till my dying day because I know that Fr. Dan Martins is a treasure in the Episcopal Church.
Congratulations Springfield IL, you have received a man who will make a most excellent Bishop.
-Shawn Michael Bianchini