A Diocese of Fort Worth mission congregation will put to a vote of its members Pope Benedict XVI’s invitation to enter into full communion with Rome through the Anglican Ordinariate.St Timothy's is presently part of the schismatic ACNA diocese in Fort Worth.
On Dec 2, Bishop Jack Iker announced that the congregation of St Timothy’s Church in Fort Worth will hold a meeting on 11 Dec 2011 to discuss the petition of the vestry and its vicar, the Rev. Christopher Stainbrook, SSC to enter the ordinariate. The congregation will vote on the proposal the following Sunday.
Not all of the members of the Anglo-Catholic congregation are expected to support the decision to enter the Catholic Church, however. The 18 Dec 2011 vote will allow Bishop Iker the opportunity to gauge the degree of support the move has in the congregation, and permit him to plan for the pastoral and sacramental care of those not going over to Rome.
The photo from St Timothy's reminds me of my olden days in the pre-Vatican II Roman Catholic Church.
Godspeed to the folks at St Timothy's. In the comments at the church website are questions about property. As the property held by ACNA is still under litigation between the Episcopal Church and the schismatics, I doubt that the Roman Catholic Church will want to be involved with the court process, but we shall see.
Thanks to Ann V. for the link to George Conger's blog. H/T to Nicholas Knisely at The Lead for further information.
As the property held by ACNA is still under litigation between the Episcopal Church and the schismatics, I doubt that the Roman Catholic Church will want to be involved with the court process, but we shall see.
ReplyDeleteThat's the question I just asked at Episcopal Cafe.
The RCC does NOT want to open THAT can o' worms, I'm SURE of it! [Think of the to-be-closed RC parishes that would LOVE to bring their parish w/ them into TEC, if given the chance. ;-/]
When we had the property conversation in the CoE a few months ago the RC church made it very clear that it did not want any of the property. That displeased the Ordinariates who had hoped to be able to take their churches with them but it ended the conversation.
ReplyDeleteErica, that is one thing that the RCC is very good at -- ending conversations, as the Ordinariates will soon find out.
ReplyDeleteI am having a very hard time this Advent of keeping a properly Christian attitude towards all the upheavals in reasserter land. It was supposed to be so pure and perfect and free of all taint once they got rid of the gays and liberals, wan’t it? What happened?
Forgive me for that snark. I am wondering though if the Ordinariates might be happier with the Sedevacantists and SPPX-type RC’s? They seem to be peas of a pod.
Thanks for keeping up with all this Mimi, so I don’t have to! LOL
And how long until they decide to leave the RCO for an even "Holier and Purer" version of the Faith Entrusted to the Saints™? I can't wait until their priest has an epiphany and realizes that He is the True Vicar of Christ.
ReplyDeleteThere's a court order in effect that prohibits the ACNA diocese from transferring title while the litigation is pending. It may be possible to work out an arrangement for the congregation to use the property in the meantime.
ReplyDeleteGosh, you folks are cynical.
ReplyDelete...that is one thing that the RCC is very good at -- ending conversations, as the Ordinariates will soon find out.
Indeed, Brian.
I blame Lapin for sending me the first link about troubles in AMiA. Now I seem to have the habit of keeping up with the stirrings in schismatic land.
Padre, two claims to the title of Vicar of Christ would surely pose a problem, although it wouldn't be the first time. I seem to remember a period when there were three claimants to the title.
Paul Powers, I'm in favor of negotiation whenever possible. Even if Bp. Iker negotiates a settlement with St Timothy, isn't it possible that everything could change when the court rules on the dispute between the Episcopal Church and ACNA?
I have had an affection for St Timothy's for several years on account of its seriously off-the-wall annual Palm Sunday celebration (click on "next page" - there are several of them. Not exactly Cecil B., but it has an incongruous charm (trying not to be patronizing here) of its own. Hope the Ordinariate allows its continuance.
ReplyDeleteFr Stainbrook, rector of St Timothy's, sports a natty line in shoes.
ReplyDeleteYou're right, Mimi. The only thing that +Iker and the congregation can negotiate now is a temporary arrangement for them to rent or use the property while the lawsuit is pending. Any transfer of title will have to wait until the lawsuit is over (assuming the congregation will even want to try to keep it).
ReplyDeleteIf they cross the Tiber, I expect our ACNA friends will learn the true meaning of "Hierarchical Church".
ReplyDeleteThey won't be bringing the building or Silver with them to Rome. Ain't gonna happen. And when ACNA and the others finally get to the Supreme Court of the United States the majority of Roman Catholics on the Court will explain "Hierarchical Church" to them again. The Romans will never allow the precedent of taking the building and silver with you to be set legally. They're not stupid.
Lapin, if you didn't have a link to pictures of the Palm Sunday procession to back you up, if you had only a verbal description, I wouldn't believe you. To complete the picture, the present day policemen should surely be dressed as Roman soldiers.
ReplyDeleteAnd the rector's shoes!
We'll see who worships in the church once the majority of the parishioners formally become a part of the ordinariate.
I expect, and I believe the powers in Rome also expect that the 'Anglican' identity will eventually be absorbed into the RCC. The members of the parish, despite what they may call themselves, are Roman Catholic converts. Those who join and find they don't like the true meaning of 'Hierarchical Church' will leave as I left, carrying nothing away.
I know shoes, and seriously, those went out with the tide a long time ago. Now what he really needs is round-toe patent leather with a ribbon across the instep. Two-inch heel, minimum. Amen.
ReplyDeleteSooner, and later those going over will learn the meaning of "Pray, pay and obey" for sure! Having been on both sides of the Tiber, I have observed that many Anglo Catholics have a very idealized vision of what it means to be RC. Many ACs have the mistaken notion that being RC is like being an AC, only more so. these are the "More Catholic than the Pope" folks. they desire to be soaked in Catholicism, but also to have their own way about things!
ReplyDeleteNot gonna happen, those sugar plums dancing in their heads! Rome now has vast amounts of huge, some beautiful, some ugly half empty churches. why on earth would they want the responsibility for some more church buildings to care for and staff? I can't picture a harried RC bishop coddling these idealistic folks, a legal and logistic nightmare for them.
Nij
Bex, I agree. Patent leather pumps with a bow as sold at Brooks Brothers. The heels on the shoes are a bit low, but otherwise.... And a real bargain at only $348.
ReplyDeleteI have observed that many Anglo Catholics have a very idealized vision of what it means to be RC.
Nij, exactly. And they won't be coddled. The rule from the top down will still be, as it always has been, my way or the highway.
As far as I know, St. Timothy's is not claiming title to the property. It would be hard for them to do so because they are a mission, not a parish (and title to all property in the diocese is held by the diocesan corporation). They may try to work out an arrangement with the ACNA diocese to rent the property on a temporary basis while the lawsuit is pending. They may try to work out a more permanent arrangement with whoever wins the lawsuit. The first thing they would need to figure out is whether they can afford the property's upkeep and maintenance with an ASA of around 90, not all of whom will want to go to Rome.
ReplyDeletePatent leather with, I believe, red bow for monsignor or - though uncanonical - for Anglican communion canon. Roman obedience may compel Fr Stainbrook to forgo the red buttons and piping.
ReplyDeletePaul, that St Timothy's is a mission church which receives support from the ACNA diocese makes a difference, and I can't see them claiming the property, but you never know.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if the 'Anglican' priests who join the ordinariate will be eligible for the title of monsignor once they have been reordained. I suppose I should say simply ordained, because the RCC never recognized their ordination in the first place.
Only eligible for "msgr"?
ReplyDeleteRe the continuance of St Timothy's Palm Sunday celebration, the huge liturgical ostrich-feather fans, whose Roman use is, I believe, confined to the Pope (and that only under the old rite), may have to go.
ReplyDeleteRegardless of whether St. Timothy's wants the property, it won't happen until after the litigation is completed (if then).
ReplyDeleteAt the time of the photo, Fr. Stainbrook was dean of the Fort Worth East Deanery. That's why he got to wear the red buttons and piping. He rotated off about a year ago, so even as an ACNA priest he wouldn't be entitled to wear them anymore.
I don't know how the Roman Catholic Church chooses its monsignori, so I have no idea whether an ordinariate priest could ever become one. Interestingly enough, the ordinariate priests will be subject to the jurisdiction of the Ordinary (who may be either a priest or a bishop), not to the diocesan bishop. It sounds sort of like the relationship between monastic priests and the Abbott or Father Superior.
Like you, I wish the folks at St. Timothy's well on their journey. It's not one I feel called upon to make myself though. I am open to the possibility of inviting Rome to join the Anglican Communion, but only after a significant gesture of good faith on Rome's part (such as subscribing to the Chicago-Lambeth Quadrilateral or the XXXIX Articles).
I can’t believe they’ve got alter boys on the roof in full cassock and surplice. Dangerous for a bit of religious theater, it seems to me.
ReplyDeletePardon my spelling, altar, not alter. Or maybe not. . .
ReplyDeleteOnly eligible for "msgr"?
ReplyDeletePoor lads. I feel for them if such is the case. ;-)
The ostrich feather fans are a bit over the top, to be sure, and I noted that the robed ministers were not simply ministers but 'sacred ministers'.
I don't know how the Roman Catholic Church chooses its monsignori....
Paul, so far as I could tell in my 60 years with Rome, monsignori were chosen by whim of the bishop after serving for a number of years.
If Rome joined the Anglican Communion, they'd surely have to recognize Anglican orders. Plus, Article XIX might be a sticking point.
Brian, the entire ceremony is hard to believe, as I said above, but if you like theater, St Timothy's had theater.
I wish to add that I am so very grateful for all you 'cynical' folks here who keep the faith anyway.
ReplyDeleteIt's widely said that a priest with monsignorical aspirations will wear very fine cufflinks.
ReplyDeleteAs a former RC< I know these things.
IT, well said by a scientist who is trained to pay attention to the details. You see, I was longer in the church than you, and I did not know about the cufflinks. ;-)
ReplyDelete