I have rather strong personal feelings against abortion. I don't know if I could ever have had one, but I was never faced with making that decision. However, I dare not judge women who choose to have abortions.
Having said that, I am appalled by the decision of Roman Catholic Archbishop Don Jose Cardoso Sobrinho to excommunicate the mother of the nine-year-old girl, weighing 80 pounds, who was pregnant with twins, and the medical staff who performed the abortion on her. Such hard-heartedness and lack of compassion, seconded by the archbishop's superiors in the Vatican, is difficult to take in.
The girl was raped repeatedly by her stepfather from the age of 6. The step-father is not excommunicated, because what he did was not an excommunicable offense. If repeatedly raping a young girl from the age of 6 to 9 is not grounds for excommunication, then it should be.
A reader called to my attention this story today from CNN:
However, the stepfather was not excommunicated, with Sobrinho telling Globo TV that, "A graver act than (rape) is abortion, to eliminate an innocent life."
The child was not excommunicated, Sobrinho said, because Catholic Church law says minors are exempt from excommunication.
"The church is benevolent when it comes to minors," he told Globo TV.
Apparently, the benevolence only goes so far, as the church would subject the girl to the risk of the death or severe damage to her health by forcing her to continue the pregnancy in which, in the end, the survival of the twins would have been doubtful.
Dr. Olimpio Moraes, one of the doctors involved in the procedure, said he thanked the archbishop for his excommunication because the controversy sheds light on Brazil's restrictive abortion laws. He said women in Brazil's countryside are victimized by Brazil's ban on abortion.
....
A new report by Brazil's IPAS, a non-governmental organization that works with the health ministry, indicates that more than 1 million women undergo illegal abortions in Brazil each year. About 250,000 are treated by doctors for traumas due to botched abortions, said Beatriz Jalli, an IPAS official.
I hope that Roe v. Wade is not overturned here in the US, for I would hate to see women forced, once again, into back-alley abortions with disastrous consequences.
The Church in Brazil helpfully said that the girl's life wasn't really in danger, in spite of her immature hips and 80 pound weight--she could have had a caesarean delivery.
ReplyDeleteBubs, it's easy for a bunch of old men to say that, isn't it? The old men have been calling the shots for far too long. It's way past time for an infusion of lay folks, including women, and humble parish priests, including women, into the decision-making process of the RCC.
ReplyDeleteMimi, like you I've never had to face that decision and I know women who had back-alley abortions before Roe v. Wade. I pray that time will never come again. I believe the decision is one between a woman, her doctor and her God. I think the RC church in Brazil far from benevolent and as for Rome............ I've been reading about this in various papers and I feel enraged. The father should not just be excommunicated, but thrown in prison for a long, long time. Her mother and the doctors were both brave and commendable.
ReplyDeleteMA, of course, the stepfather belongs in prison! I was merely referring to the church's discipline. I don't understand why evil actions like the step-father's would not result in excommunication.
ReplyDeleteThis shows such an arrogance! The sin was first and foremost with the father, not the daughter!
ReplyDeleteI feel disgust for the step father and the RC church in this situation.
ReplyDeleteGiven the fact of this girl's age and weight she may never even have had a menstrual period. She may have made it through the pregnancy but there would have considerable cost to her physical health...... possibly even death. What it would have done to her emotionally is not even possible to predict.
This is what happens when old men who have been out out of touch with reality for most of their lives is put in a place of power.
This is a case where almost all seem to be of one mind, except the Roman Hierarcy.
ReplyDeleteEven the Pentecostal Daily here (which is rather americanized anti Abortion and the rest) has critizised the Roman church.
Yeah, heartless is the word.
Arrogance, yes!
ReplyDeleteTwo Auntees, to say nothing of the emotional cost to the girl.
And if even the Swedish Pentecostals don't like it....
Grandmère Mimi, as a long-time Roman Catholic, now a small-c catholic... I can assure you that NOBODY could be more qualified to decide right and wrong on matters of reproductive choice that a gang of elderly, gay (though tastefully closeted) men in red dresses.
ReplyDeleteThey explain it all in CCD. Seems they're moved by the Holy Spirit, or was it gastric distress... something like that anyhow.
I'm conflicted over the morality of abortion, but Good Lord could they be more ridiculous? They make themselves difficult to take at all seriously.
{HUG}
--Wade (No, not THAT Wade...)
Wade, I was a long-timer in the RCC, too, and I can trump you with 16 years of Catholic schooling under my belt, through university, no mere CCD. I had it all explained to me, too, and explained, and explained. They're overreaching now, and I think there will be serious consequences. Their flock no longer consists of only dumb sheep, and I include my former self in the dumb sheep category.
ReplyDeleteI believe you're quite right Grandmère. And Benedict's war on the Jesuits, as well as critical thought in general, is bound to have terrible consequences for the Church in the long term. I always wondered why they'd teach us critical thinking then expect we'd follow like sheep.
ReplyDeleteThe "Panzer Pope" seems determined to eliminate that inconsistency. I expect he'll replace them with Opus Dei. Intellectual heavyweights indeed!
A link from Jane R's site
ReplyDeleteExcommunicating the victims says,
They claim to know the law of God. But here’s the rub: even if they do, an overwhelming number of Catholics and others of goodwill do not care. We do not believe in the cruel, vindictive, callous God they cite. Many believers put our faith in a loving, merciful divinity whose response to human tragedy is to weep not condemn, to embrace not exile. That is a Catholic view, well-supported by scripture and life experience. The bishops are welcome to their views, but beware of people who think they know more about God’s will and God’s law than the rest of us. They are selling a product we are not buying.
I believe that this case serves as further proof that the jig is up for Catholic clerics who dare to excommunicate a mother who has already suffered enough while they continue to embrace priest pedophiles and the bishops who hide their crimes. Let this case signal the end of any credible claim to authority such bishops might make, and the beginning of a new era when local communities determine their own members. I daresay the world will be a safer, kinder place.
I read about this case in horror. The heartlessness of the decision is overwhelming, though, given the current church leadership not surprising.
ReplyDeleteThe path Pope Benedict is on is the path to destruction for the RCC. Those who remain in the church are more and more likely to make their own decisions and disregard the directives from on high.
ReplyDeleteThe path Pope Benedict is on is the path to destruction for the RCC.
ReplyDeleteFor the sake of all the many wonderful RCs (like Our FranIAm), I just wish I could care...
...but for the sake of my ever being able to get married, I want those b*stards Out-of-Business, ASAP! {*} [Nevermind this poor child---Lord have mercy.]
{*} Along w/ the Mormons and all other LGBT-hating Wingnuts. >:-/
Chere Mimi
ReplyDeleteyou might check out today's New York Times for another story of Roman Catholic insanity.
Governor Patterson wants to temporarily lift the statue of limitations to allow cases of child abuse which don't make it under the current law's time limitations.
the spokesman for the Roman Catholic Church says this is nothing but an attempt to bankrupt the Diocese and the Roman Catholic Church.
how about accountability for the horror inflicted on those young boys? it would appear accounability is a one way street with impotent old men in skirts.
Speaking of ecclesiastical child abuse, the state legislature in New York is about to end the statute of limitations on child sex abuse, and the Catholic hierarchy, with the help of orthodox rabbis and the Republicans, is fighting it tooth and nail.
ReplyDeleteEcrasez l'infamie!
I find the church's stance on this disgusting. I'm hoping that my evangelical relatives aren't ok with this either, but I don't know.
ReplyDeleteMy beloved the RC is very hurt by all the church has done, but her identity and her parish community are very important to her and she's not willing to give them up yet. They are her dear friends.
ReplyDeleteBut she no longer takes communion when she goes to RC Mass, because she feels not in communion with the church overall. She doesn't make a big point of this and is pretty sure no one has noticed. On alternate weeks, we go to the Episcopal church and she participates fully there.
She is in such pain. :-(
Sympathy for your BP, IT!
ReplyDeleteMedieval theology: medieval thinking.
ReplyDeleteMy dear friend, Fran, tells me that both her RCC parish church and the church she works for are about the business of doing the work of the Lord, and that many of the proclamations from on high wash over them, as they continue their work in building the Kingdom of God in their areas of responsibility. Fran participates in their efforts to live out the Gospel. I believe that's all we can ask of them.
ReplyDeleteDavid, I've read about the story in the NYT, but I intend to read it. Circling the wagons and taking a defensive position about child abuse by priests in the RCC, has been the policy from the beginning. The victims of abuse have not been the church's major concern.
Counterlight, that is a very good thing. I hope it happens.
Diane, at least some evangelicals are very much not OK with this. I hope that your relatives are among them.
IT, if your BP's church is like the two parishes that Fran is associated with, I understand her perfectly. It was a terrible wrench for me to leave the RCC at the age of 60.
On occasion, I still take communion in the RCC, although I am excommunicated, because the communion table is the Lord's table and not theirs to refuse or allow folks to participate. Each one must do as she/he thinks best. If I was specifically forbidden at a particular mass, of course, I would comply and not make a scene.
DP, exactly!
Mimi, why are you excommunicated? DO they do that when you leave, or was there something More Sinister?
ReplyDeleteIT, this is from Wiki. It seems right in the essentials as I know them:
ReplyDeleteIn the code of Roman Catholic canon law currently in force, there are eight instances when a person may incur excommunication latae sententiae. Unless the excusing circumstances outlined in canons 1321-1330[6] are verified, the following persons incur excommunication latae sententiae:
* an apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic;
I am an apostate for joining another church and a heretic for not adhering to all the doctrines of the church. I did not lead a group out of the church so "schismatic" does not apply to me.