As hopeful Anglo-Catholic parishes across Canada completed two months of catechetical study Dec. 18, dreams of a Canadian Catholic ordinariate for ex-Anglicans are fading.So. It seems for now that the Canadian breakaways may have to make do with being part of the US ordinariate, since numbers of their people decided that they were not comfortable becoming Roman Catholic converts.
"We had hoped, of course, we would have our own Canadian ordinariate, but we realize our numbers may not warrant it," Bishop Carl Reid, Anglican Catholic Church of Canada auxiliary bishop, told The Catholic Register.
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The number of Canadian break-away Anglicans seeking a place in the Catholic Church has declined in the two years since Pope Benedict XVI issued Anglicanorum Coetibus, an apostolic constitution intended to provide for groups of Anglicans entering the Catholic Church but retaining significant elements of Anglican liturgy.
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"A number of our people who weren't clear when they joined us of our intention to seek unity — even though it is in our foundational documents, our constitution — when unity became not only a possibility but a reality they just sort of left," said Reid. "That reduced our numbers from what they were two years ago."
Among the issues being worked out are the final resting place of ACCC clergy. Where 67 Anglican priests in the United States have submitted dossiers seeking Catholic ordination and 35 have received a nulla osta, or initial approval, from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, none of the Canadian Anglican clergy who have applied have heard back from Rome.When I read the initial sentence in the paragraph above, I assumed that the final resting place referred to where the clergy would be buried, and I wondered why there was such concern about the location of graves, but I was wrong. The 'final resting place' refers to the decision about the clergy's 'place' of ministry in the church of Rome while they are yet alive, which seems to be coming slowly in Canada.
The article in the Catholic Register is dated December 20, 2011, so perhaps there has been movement forward since then, but I have not found more recent news.
I wish those who departed the Anglican Church of Canada well, and I hope the people and parishes find a place where they will be at peace in their worship and practice of the faith.
The photo is of Bishop Carl Reid, Anglican Catholic Church of Canada auxiliary bishop.
Thanks to Ann V who pointed me to the article in The Catholic Register via Anglicans Ablaze.
I noticed this morning while doing an idle search that the priest at the local Anglican church joined the ordinariate last June, taking about half a dozen members of the congregation with him. When it was first announced he told the local paper he thought every single Anglican church in the borough plus their congregations and buildings would transfer to the RCC. That struck me as monumentally arrogant, so, I'm pleased to see it didn't remotely happen. He (Fr Jon Ravensdale) also said: “My take is that it's an extremely generous offer. What surprises me is that my own Church can't make the same offer.” Not sure what offer the CofE should have made him, but there we go.
ReplyDeleteI should traipse down there and offer them my support. However it might still be a Forward in Faith parish, unfortunately.
Making the "same offer" IMO would involve what the American breakaways wanted i.e., to be able to join another church while keeping the property and the silver, while kicking out those who disagreed. We're seeing how that worked out for them.
ReplyDeleteCathy, that's quite interesting. I don't see how the offer is so generous. The Sarum rite which the RC 'Anglicans' will be permitted to use is very like the old Tridentine mass, to which certain Roman Catholics long to return to use. And their orders are null and void. How is that generous? Folks have always been permitted to convert to Roman Catholicism.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand what offer Ravensdale could be talking about unless it's as Bex said, the offer to take the church when you leave. Go with God and the building.
Considering the number of church buildings, from medium to huge, that the RC folks have now empty on their hands, why on earth would they want the transferees to bring yet another building to care for?
ReplyDeleteIn this small Massachusetts town there is one RC church still open, one huge church building that has been made into Sr. apartments (owned by the town now I think) one large church closed and padlocked. Additionally, there is a large RC church still open that sits right on the border of the town that is technically in the next town but draws people from this town. The TEC church here is so tiny that if the RC church got it, they could use it as a broom closet. (their (TEC) congregation = 25 people when the bishop came recently).
So if they decided to flee to Rome, it would be almost ludicrous, with 2 large RC churches about 3 miles apart and often half empty, to have a tiny old church with 25 members (present on a good day) to care for and provide a priest for. The local TEC church functions with a lay reader and doesn't have its own priest.
I'm willing to bet that this isn't a solitary town in a solitary situation and it is only about 35 miles from Boston. If there is anything the RC doesn't need, it is more church buildings to maintain. I think they have offered the Ordinariate (sp?) to try to add people to fill their own half empty churches. What the new converts don't really understand is that they are welcomed as warm bodies...what a sad mess......
nij
Nij, I know of several, lovely old RC churches in New Orleans which stand empty, locked, and unused, mainly because of a shortage of priests. Two parishes wanted their churches kept in use and met all the diocesan criteria to remain as parishes, but staffing was a problem, and the bishop decided to close them, to the dismay of the parishioners.
ReplyDeleteI surely don't see Rome wanting more church buildings. The ordinariate parishes are built to self-destruct after a generation or two.
It's the church my grandparents on my dad's side got married in before emigrating to Brisbane in the 1920s, according to my dad, which is why I was all the more annoyed it had been co-opted by bigoted types.
ReplyDeleteBut if it's still a Forward in Faith church, then I still cannot attend. :(
I doubt that Ravensdale did see it as a generous offer per se. That's more a way of stamping your footsie and shouting "The CofE should have given US what WE want"!
ReplyDeleteCathy, since Mr Ravensdale (his orders are no longer valid according to the RCC) has left, the church may have changed direction. What the FiF folks don't seem to want are gays and women bishops, and perhaps not even women priests. I wouldn't blame you for not wanting to attend such a church, but, because of the family connection, you might explore a little and perhaps attend one service to scope the place out.
ReplyDeleteI did go quite regularly to the church till I spotted the sign saying it was Forward in Faith. That occurred at round about the same time as the then Fr Ravensdale preaching a sermon in which he said that you weren't permitted to come to services unless you believed in transubstantiation, because if you didn't you were a heretic and should go elsewhere. I figured I didn't, so I stopped going. The ordinariate plan hadn't been sprung then - he was basically just grooming the congregation for when it was.
ReplyDeleteI might go back and see if they're still FIF.
How strange for a Church of England Vicar, Cathy. I don't blame you for not returning. Ravensdale has gone to where he belongs.
ReplyDeleteWell I don't think it was strange so much as manipulative. He was hoping to take the whole congregation with him when he went, so he was trying in an underhand to bring them round to his way of thinking before the news about the ordinariate was even announced. I did always get the impression from his sermons that he assumed the congregation were a bit thick.
ReplyDeletethat should read "in an underhand way".
ReplyDeleteAnother thing he said was that if you didn't go to church every single Sunday you were in mortal sin and it was the same as if someone invited you to a private dinner party and you didn't bother to turn up. "And what if they saw you in the street the next day?" I thought that was a bit bizarre. Maybe that had happened with a member of the congregation and he was having a not very covert go at them. I don't know.
ReplyDeleteStrange, Cathy, very strange. He definitely had an agenda. I think you're right about what he was doing before he left...preparing all the parishioners for the crossover to Rome, but they didn't all follow him.
ReplyDeleteI looked up Ravensdale, and he is already ordained in the ordinariate. I believe the ratio of priests to laity is pretty high in England, too, and I wonder if there will be jobs for all the priests.